Beyond connectivity: How broadband can empower Native nations and build stronger communities

On this episode of Connected Nation, we're talking with a tribal economic development leader who is working to create new opportunities for Native nations and underserved communities.

We discuss tribal self-determination, workforce development, broadband, infrastructure, and what it takes to build community-driven solutions that support long-term economic goals.

Related links:

NDN Development Group website

Brandon Dinsmore LinkedIn

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Jessica Denson (00:08):

This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband. From closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds, we talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods. On this episode of Connected Nation, we're talking about something that doesn't get nearly enough air time, how outside organizations can actually be useful to Native nations instead of just showing up with a clipboard and a grant deadline.

My guest works with a nonprofit that's flipped the usual script. Rather than parachuting in with a fixed plan, they bring options to the table, real flexible ones that let tribal leaders decide what actually fits. We'll get into what that looks like on the ground, why it works better than the traditional approach, and what other organizations can learn from it. I'm Jessica Denson, and this is Connected Nation. I am at the Broadband Community Summit taking place in Houston, Texas in late August, which is a hot time to be in Texas.

(01:13):

<laugh> But it's, it's a wonderful conference and I have been lucky enough to have Brandon Dinsmore stop by my booth and agree to talk with me on the podcast. Welcome, Brandon.

Brandon Dinsmore (01:23):

Thank you so much. It was nice to see you.

Jessica Denson (01:25):

Nice to see you. I'm excited to hear this great new stuff that you're up to. Um, you've transitioned out of academia - Yeah. And are doing something on your own. It's called the NDN Development Group, and you're the founder and executive director. You've been, you've been working on this, been a dream of yours for a few years now, and you've been officially around for just over a year. So talk about what NDN, NDN <laugh> Development Group is up to and what you guys are doing.

Brandon Dinsmore (01:52):

Yeah. Okay. So first of all, it's a, like you said, it's a passion of mine. It's something I've been really enthused about doing. And, and essentially what it is, is it's an entity, a nonprofit whose goal is to help with tribal workforce and economic development, as well as helping other underserved, underrepresented communities out there. Uh, the whole, the whole motivation behind it was I wanted to create something that was not extractive to work with the tribes, and they could also help empower tribal members towards, you know, better financial prosperity in the future and connect it to a tribe's economic long-term goals.

Jessica Denson (02:27):

Mm-hmm. And are you just really, um, have a background in tribal work or is that just an area that you really care about? Talk about why specifically tribal nations.

Brandon Dinsmore (02:36):

Yeah, so my work in higher education was really heavily devoted to that, to working with the tribes. Mm-hmm. I saw a lot of things that were very inspiring in that work. And to be honest, uh, there was one particular program that I did with the tribe that completely changed the way that I see workforce development going forward. And that moment was, I don't know what you call it, but I could not go back after

Jessica Denson (02:57):

That. Epiphany. It

Brandon Dinsmore (02:58):

Was an epiphany

Jessica Denson (02:59):

For sure.

Brandon Dinsmore (02:59):

Yeah. And, um, it, it, it allowed me to sort of double, triple and quadruple down on the interest in that and the energy that I wanted to put into that. And working with some of the tribes that I've worked with, I just felt like I was exposed to something that was life changing for me. I, I'm a Cherokee citizen, but I didn't grow up in the culture the way that I now wish that I would have. Mm-hmm. So I look at this as an opportunity to not just learn more, but give back and that's kind of what my aim is ultimately. I, I think if I can take and develop some programs that will help empower tribal members, I think that's sort of my way of giving back. Uh,

Jessica Denson (03:39):

Does it help a little bit that you have the Cherokee in you and that you've come from a little bit of that background? I know you said you didn't grow up in it, but a little, you know, sometimes when you don't know the culture or haven't, um, been a part of that, like me as a white woman, I may not speak necessarily the same ideas or culture that, to a, uh, native person. Um, do you feel like you have a little more respect and understanding of that, that makes it, uh, easy to have those conversations?

Brandon Dinsmore (04:04):

Yeah, I think so. You know, I really would say that my experience over the last several years has also, uh, helped with that quite a bit. I would say that growing up, I was very much an anti-establishment type of a person. Mm-hmm. I definitely had this, this vision of tribal nations and I was very aware of the fact that the reason that it wasn't something that was talked about every day was historical. It went back a couple of generations and then there were reasons for that. But I think, uh, being a Cherokee citizen, once I reached adulthood, I was able to really dive deep into that kind of thing and learn quite a bit more about that.

Jessica Denson (04:40):

Mm-hmm.

Brandon Dinsmore (04:41):

So I wouldn't say that it necessarily helps in terms of what I do, but it is definitely informative in the way that I approach things. And I'm constantly trying to learn more to, to be honest, you know, it's, it's absolutely fascinating to me. It has, uh, working with the tribes, seeing them as they are has been really eye-opening, even in terms of how I, I guess, conceptualize the federal government - uh-huh. And, you know, world governments. 

It's just such an amazing thing to be able to see these tribal nations doing their thing, building nations all right in the backyard in Oklahoma, you know? Mm-hmm. And I think that, uh, Cherokee Nation being pretty large, growing up in that area, I totally took for granted some of the things that they did. And as a kid, I would have never realized the economic impact that the tribes make, but, you know, a couple years back, they dropped some numbers and it was absolutely astonishing.

(05:34):

And all of a sudden that kind of clicked for me and made me think, oh, that's why the healthcare is so great. Mm-hmm. You know, that's why certain towns look so nice. There's just so much investment in communities and people, uh, when it comes to the tribes. It's fantastic in, in my opinion to have an opportunity to try to be a part of that in some way, you know, even if it is small.

Jessica Denson (05:55):

I think, I do think that's wonderful to, to have your, um, these sovereign nations that have their own set of rules and things that really feed into their culture and to their community and, and they're taking care of each other. It's a beautiful thing to see, I think, when I've been to the, on these tribal nations. And, um, for you, uh, with, as your no - in a non - as a nonprofit, you, when we were chatting right before we sat down, um, you were saying that you really are trying to go to them with, um, resources, whether it's funding or a planner. Uh, talk a little bit about that approach that you're taking that's kind of makes it unique what you're doing.

Brandon Dinsmore (06:32):

Absolutely. So the way that I look at things, um, things tend toward extraction a lot of the times when it comes to working with the tribes.

Jessica Denson (06:39):

Mm-hmm.

Brandon Dinsmore (06:39):

I've never really liked that. Uh, I feel like I'm constantly on the lookout for that. So I wanted to approach things differently. And rather than going with my hands out saying, "I want money, oh yeah, by the way, I might be able to do something for you." <laugh>

My thought was in conversations with, uh, folks at, uh, Tribal Nations, maybe they are pursuing some sort of enterprise or some sort of long-term idea, I wanted to be able to come to them and say, "Hey, I've already taken care of securing funding or, you know, I've done the research and I think these are the grants that we should apply for instead of coming to them asking for the money. And then I'll develop something." I wanted to be able to do that on the forefront, develop it up front, have the funding upfront, or at least identified, and then go ahead and start doing it.

(07:22):

I also really, really believe in strong partnerships. So Indian Development Group is also a way to take all of these people, these amazing people and organizations that I've met over the years and bring them together under one umbrella so that it, essentially, I could go to whoever it is and say, "Here's the program or the initiative that we want to do. Here is the group of a million other people that are just as like-minded and just as committed to it. And we

Jessica Denson (07:46):

Want

Brandon Dinsmore (07:46):

To devote all of our resources, skills and expertise to this because we want to make it as successful as possible." And so, um, it, it's, it's absolutely, to me, it's like world building. You're creating your own world and the whole aim of it is to try to positively influence outcomes for other people.

Jessica Denson (08:03):

So is it, it's not just broadband, it's, it's a wide range of things, right? Talk about some of the, um, issues right now and then let's come back around to broadband.

Brandon Dinsmore (08:11):

So I'm sorry, say that one more time. Uh,

Jessica Denson (08:12):

I, it's, talk about some of the issues that you're targeting and then we can come back around to broadband.

Brandon Dinsmore (08:17):

Oh, absolutely.

Jessica Denson (08:18):

So

Brandon Dinsmore (08:18):

Energy for one, anything that has to do with, um, infrastructure that's gonna be on tribal lands. I really feel like if, if there is a way possible, uh, a tribe should own that infrastructure, be able to operate it, maintain it and things like that. Staff the work and the construction with their own people. Um, working really heavily in that, e- energy has just been a, a passion of mine, specifically renewable energy, clean energy. Mm-hmm. Um, there's also community development. I think that a lot of the communities, especially in Oklahoma, if you've ever been through there, uh, there is -

Jessica Denson (08:47):

I, I, I grew up in Oklahoma City, just south side of Oklahoma City.

Brandon Dinsmore (08:50):

Well, there you go. Yeah. You look, uh, look around there. Oh my gosh. Uh, places need a lot of help. Yeah. But you can also look at smaller communities

(08:58):

That the tribes have invested in. Mm-hmm. And it's a total difference. It's, it's absolutely crazy. So I, I really like the idea of being able to apply the same approach, which is workforce development, tied to economic development, to try to improve these communities, because it's really important to me that the community has a voice. One of the things that I've noticed, um, whenever it connects to, um, let's just say this large scale infrastructure stuff that might be related to energy or, uh, broadband or things like that, communities don't tend to have much say so, much input.

Jessica Denson (09:31):

Mm-hmm.

Brandon Dinsmore (09:32):

But when it comes to tribal, uh, nations, I think that the community's there. The people are all kind of thinking we should have a voice. We should have a say so in this. So when it comes to the community development side of things, I think that if we can intentionally take in their voices and their perspectives and actually try to do something that recognizes that we can have even better outcomes. So it's kind of a long-winded way of saying a little bit of everything is kind of what I'm involved in, but I definitely am trying not to pursue anything that goes against maybe something deep down inside of me, which is that sort of, that, what I would call maybe gross extraction.

Jessica Denson (10:09):

Yes. Yeah. Where you're going to the tribes for money rather than going to the tribes to help.

Brandon Dinsmore (10:15):

Exactly.

Jessica Denson (10:15):

So it's more of an altruistic approach. Altruistic approach. Hey, it's a good word for me. <laugh> That's

Brandon Dinsmore (10:20):

Very good. I like that. <laugh>

Jessica Denson (10:21):

Um, as the, rather than a financially in- incentivized approach.

Brandon Dinsmore (10:26):

Exactly. Yeah. Because there are, there are so many people that, uh, feel like me. They, they wanna be able to do these things. They don't know how. Mm-hmm. And it just seemed like an opportunity to say then let's just go ahead and do it. We, we can figure it out along the way if it's, if there's something that we don't quite understand. But, uh, the, the partnerships have been very crucial because I don't have the expertise in everything - uh-huh. But certainly somebody does.

And once you bring them on board and they get excited about it and they see what the actual goal and the focus is, they can run with it. And to me, that's, that's really special because it's different than any other organization I've ever worked within. Mm-hmm. It's, it's, it's, it's autonomy, but it's toward the greater good. And a lot of the time, that kind of greater good component or that part of the conversation tends to be dismissed in certain rooms because it's not, it's not maybe corporate enough.

(11:15):

Mm-hmm. It's, it's not -

Jessica Denson (11:17):

Or all profits.

Brandon Dinsmore (11:19):

Yeah. That profit motivation is

(11:21):

Very difficult. There have been so many, uh, conversations that I've had, um, you know, uh, at past points in my career where that was the thing that derailed the actual mission. And I think that's even happened in broadband. You think to yourself, how noble, we're gonna connect this community. This is gonna change lives. Mm-hmm. And then all of a sudden it starts talking about profits and what can we expect? To me, that's like a soul killer - uh-huh. Because I'm not interested in that. If it, if it, if it generates that, that's fine, but the real goal is to change the lives of individual people. And I think that's how you can uplift an entire tribal community or state or whatever it is.

Jessica Denson (11:57):

Well, you cared about it enough to start an organization. That's pretty incredible. Yeah. You should applaud yourself. That's not an easy task. Well, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So you talked about partnerships. When you talk about that, do you mean partnering with the tribal nations or do you just, you mean partnering with other groups or a little of column A and column B?

Brandon Dinsmore (12:14):

A little of column A, column B.

Jessica Denson (12:15):

Mm-hmm. But

Brandon Dinsmore (12:16):

Primarily it's, you know, in my, in my experience, in my travels, in my conversations, I've met people. Um, they might be from a tribe. They, they might, uh, be directly involved in the tribe's work or they might just be a member of that tribe, but they're all motivated in the same way. Uh, they wanna do these very holistic things, these very, uh, big picture type things. I've learned and I've been told not to say big picture - <laugh>. Because it sounds really cheesy and generic or, and, but vision just feels cringey to me. <laugh> But anyway, these people are all - Big picture's

Jessica Denson (12:48):

All right. People understand that. Yeah.

Brandon Dinsmore (12:50):

Okay.

Jessica Denson (12:50):

Nothing wrong with that. <laugh>

Brandon Dinsmore (12:51):

That's the whole thing is, you know, you, we see a lot of things that are disconnected. And I get it, you know, um, any nation is gonna have multiple departments, any organization's gonna have multiple departments. Mm-hmm. It's very difficult for them to communicate and all be aligned on one mission. And

(13:05):

Then of course it's even more difficult to get, uh, let's just say people that are in positions where they don't feel like they have any say so, they can't contribute in any way whatsoever to that ultimate end goal, to be able to find the way to get them excited and get them aligned. It was the same thing with these partners. Um, they just re- represent people from all over. Um, some of them are in food and agriculture and they wanna be able to work on food sovereignty. Some of them are in the, uh, criminal justice space or mental health space. And I think that they're, for me, it was important to bring everybody together because the reality was a lot of the work I was trying to do in the past, I wanted to be able to hit on every single aspect of life.

Jessica Denson (13:42):

Mm-hmm.

Brandon Dinsmore (13:42):

Which is absolutely impossible for one person to do. So bringing them together, it's a great way to sort of, I guess, onboard expertise in all those areas and then sort of align it all to this singular mission. Uh, it, it's been very exciting. A lot of the partners, um, are people like myself that they saw a need. They were, maybe they were working somewhere and they realized, I don't get to do what I'm truly passionate about here because of this one barrier. So they set out on their own to try to do it and answer that to themselves. Um, I love working with people like that. I, I look at it as a bunch of autonomous, independent, amazing people that wanna change the world. And being around a group of people like that gets rid of that idea that maybe I'm just being a Pollyanna.

(14:25):

<laugh> Maybe I'm just being too optimistic.

Jessica Denson (14:27):

I think it's kind of punk rock actually. Yeah. Rather than Po- Pollyanna. Yeah. I like that. A little anti-establishment, but also, you know, kind of like a punk rock anthem, doing something good and changing the world and doing your own, going your own way. <laugh> I like that. So it doesn't have to be Pollyanna or maybe it's a mix. <laugh> There we

Brandon Dinsmore (14:44):

Go. There you go. I'll, I'll take that.

Jessica Denson (14:44):

Yeah. And in your, in your mind, where does, because we are at the Broadband Community Summit, where does broadband fit into this scope of creating a better place for all?

Brandon Dinsmore (14:55):

Oh, I think broadband is, is critical. It's key. Broadband represents connectivity and the ability to connect to several other things. So in the beginning with the internet for all thing, whenever it rolled down, it was really easy to start thinking, okay, you know, broadband, that's connectivity. Okay. What is that? A utility? That's a, is that a human right?

If it's a utility, what does that connect to? And slowly you start to realize it connects to technology, um, you know, some of this big tech stuff that's going on - Uh-huh. Which then begs the question of what about the energy? Okay, well, there's an opportunity there to explore. And I felt like broadband, I still do, I feel like broadband represents that, um, that connecting string between it all. Mm-hmm. And if we can do that right and deploy that right, which also means more than just saying, "Hey, there's a network there and it's pretty fast." Yeah.

(15:45):

It means creating dra - jobs and, um, in the process of creating those jobs, addressing some of the barriers that people face to employment.

Jessica Denson (15:52):

Mm-hmm.

Brandon Dinsmore (15:53):

It means creating, let's say, workforce development programs that are holistic enough to address a lot of those things, working with justice involved, working with people that maybe have substance abuse problems, mental health concerns, all those kinds of things. Broadband represents a way to, to, to tie it all together and also the physical way of offering things like telehealth, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, the high speed access so that somebody can, let's say, gain certain digital skills. It, it, it, to me, it is. I, there, there has to be a cheesier way of wording it, but it's not, it's not just literal connectivity. It's this figurative concept of connection - uh-huh. To so many other things. If I could, if I could pull the image out of my brain, it would be one of those, like, those crime maps in a movie with all of the red yarn connects.

Jessica Denson (16:37):

<laugh> Yeah. And

Brandon Dinsmore (16:38):

Then somewhere in there, there's broadband connecting it all. Maybe the red string is the

Jessica Denson (16:42):

Broadband. Maybe that's the broadband. Yeah, I love that. <laugh> I'm also struck for tribal nations, the idea that, um, uh, and for a lot of, um, vulnerable populations acro - not just tribal nations, but other populations, being, having broad, access to broadband, being able to share their point of view on the world and their point of view on their community, their culture, being able to share that without having a filter. Yeah.

You know, somebody else, like, not giving it to me to then translate, but for them themselves to be able to do it. And broadband gives access to that. And I think that's very, at least from my point of view, I think it's very, um, empowering. Oh, absolutely. Um, excuse me. So, um, Brandon, let's talk a little bit about you. I know you left academia. Uh, talk a little bit about your history and, uh, what do you hope for the next five years?

Brandon Dinsmore (17:30):

Okay. Yeah. So I was in academia for a while. Mm-hmm. And it was enlightening and eye-opening. I'll go ahead and, and, and say this. I don't think it's gonna ruffle any feathers, but I was one of those people that I though a college degree was just a piece of paper for

Jessica Denson (17:46):

A long

Brandon Dinsmore (17:46):

Time. Very expensive. And I honestly was the kind of person that would say, "I get the point of a degree mill. If it's just gonna cost so much money for the piece of paper, fine. I'll do it." Then I started working in higher ed and that completely changed. <laugh> I started to realize, wow, there's a connection here. <laugh> As silly as it sounds to say right now, it's, uh, my, my epiphany then was, oh wow, there's a connection to getting an education and then knowing how to do a thing. Uh-huh.

So that made sense. But I also saw that there were opportunities to connect what I would call, um, non-academic programs or, you know, non-credit programs - Uh-huh. Short term stuff, credentials. And I though, okay, wow, that's kind of nice. So there is a way that higher ed could serve everybody. And higher education to me represented a nationwide infrastructure system where we could deliver these short term things.

Jessica Denson (18:37):

Mm-hmm.

Brandon Dinsmore (18:38):

But ultimately what ended up happening is I started to change back a little bit in the way that I thought, which was to say, "Well, I don't think we need the degrees to be full of these things. I think that they could really be, you know, boiled down to some core competencies." And, and again, I know there are tons of people out there that they need that. That's, that's, that's a requirement. Mm-hmm. So in the end, I think I came away with this mindset of the credentials, the short term training, those should be pathways in two degrees for those that want it. Mm-hmm. It shouldn't be a requirement to have to go to this really long degree program that

Jessica Denson (19:12):

Might cost a lot. And do a four year program - Oh yeah. Or a longer time

Brandon Dinsmore (19:15):

Period.

Jessica Denson (19:16):

You

Brandon Dinsmore (19:16):

Know, I also, I will say I'm a person that I don't believe education should cost anybody any money, but I know that that's a very divisive issue right now. Um, what really makes me feel that way so strongly is the short term training. Mm-hmm. Broadband's a good example. Um, energy's a good example. If there is an industry out there that is in desperate need of workers, then I do not believe that the financial burden should be upon those workers or those future workers to go get the training, right?

Jessica Denson (19:39):

Yeah.

Brandon Dinsmore (19:39):

Um, if, if, if there's a hole that needs to be filled and, um, I can do that, then why would I have to pay money to do that? So anyway, um, it, it, really the, the higher education thing was a wild ride for me. I, I learned so much, but I also feel like I saw a lot.

Jessica Denson (19:56):

Yeah. Good and bad. I get it.

Brandon Dinsmore (19:58):

Good and bad. Yeah. Yes. So that, that really led me down this route where I though there's a better way to do things for me personally. Mm-hmm. Um, I can, I can do quite a bit more. And, um, yeah. So that's been kind of a lot of what I've been working on.

Jessica Denson (20:09):

And where do you hope ND- ND. I don't know why I'm hav hard time saying it. NDN. Oh, NDN. Yep. Like Indian. Okay. Got it. Uh, <laugh> it is NDN, but he, he's kind of got, if you roll it together, it is NDN. Yeah. I got it. <laugh> Um, so, um, where do you hope to see it in five, 10 years down the road?

Brandon Dinsmore (20:28):

Oh, gosh. Um, I don't wanna sound too crazy with it, but honestly, I

Jessica Denson (20:34):

Guess - It's okay to dream big.

Brandon Dinsmore (20:35):

To dream big?

Jessica Denson (20:36):

Yeah. It,

Brandon Dinsmore (20:36):

It's a, it's a pretty big dream. I would like to create, um, with, with the partners that, uh, are a part of this, I'd like to be able to create some access to training options that are not maybe available to all tribes right now or all communities. Um, there are several in Oklahoma that could definitely use it. Uh, I would like to be able to create programming that could be owned, operated, and housed on tribal lands that can then feed into tribal colleges and universities for their, them to either issue credentials or credit for. And I would like to do these things in a way that is connected directly to a tribal nation's long-term strategy or master plan or economic goals. And honestly, I think the way that that might look in 10 years is that somewhere out there, some tribe that maybe was small and they were be, they were really kind of in the beginning stages of that nation building is able to say, "Oh yeah, well, look at this.

(21:28):

We have a training center that connects to maybe a neighboring tribe's college and we're able to create, uh, educated, degreed people out of our tribal members that keep this whole thing kind of community, tribal centered, you know." That's really what I wanna see. I just, I wanna see the tribes be able to do the same things that you see everything else out there doing. And, and I feel like one of the big hurdles to that is first, where do you start? Second, how do you fund it? Mm-hmm. And the, the nonprofit, that's its intention is to overcome those two barriers so that we can sort of run full speed. And that's another thing. The way that things tend to work, this is higher education, I think this is elsewhere, things can sometimes work very slowly. Uh-huh. And that slow speed kills everyone's ambition. Mm-hmm. And yeah.

(22:18):

Um -

Jessica Denson (22:18):

And their excitement and - Oh yeah.

Brandon Dinsmore (22:20):

Yeah,

Jessica Denson (22:20):

Commitment,

Brandon Dinsmore (22:21):

All of it. If there's a way to do that where we can say, "Hey, we're gonna go full speed from day one." Um, everybody that I, I like to work with is the same way. So I think that we could do something pretty rapidly, but ultimately it's getting the word out there and then getting people to understand what exactly we're trying to do. That we're not just some random, weird new thing that's out there saying, "Oh, I saw a casino. Give me a million dollars, please." So.

Jessica Denson (22:44):

Well, I will include links to the organization and your LinkedIn and the description of this podcast so people can find you - Oh, thank you. And see what you're up to. I think it's fantastic what you're doing, and I really appreciate your time today, Brandon. Oh,

Brandon Dinsmore (22:55):

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate everything that you all do at

Jessica Denson (22:57):

Connected Nation. Oh, thank you. We, we love it. I, I like when you talk altruistic and stuff and your mission, uh, that is definitely lights up things for me as well. <laugh> Right? 'Cause yes, it's so great. Yeah. That great. So Brandon Densmore, he's the founder and executive director of NDN Development Group. Um, and it's a nonprofit that's just been founded in the last year. It's doing really great work with Native, Native Nations. And, um, I really wish you lots of luck.

Brandon Dinsmore (23:24):

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

Jessica Denson (23:26):

Yeah. Thank you. I'll bring you continuing coverage from the Broadband Community Summit, a later podcast in 2026. Until then, I'm Jessica Denson, and this is Connected Nation. If you like our show and wanna know more about us, head to connectednation.org or look for us on your favorite podcast platform.