The nuts and bolts: How "dumb infrastructure" is the backbone of America's connectivity

Today, we speak with Tillman Infrastructure, a rapidly growing, carrier-trusted tower company that develops, owns, and operates assets providing connectivity infrastructure to communities across the United States.

We discuss the challenges for expanding that critical infrastructure – find out what it really takes to connect small towns and farmlands.

External Links:
Website: https://www.tillmaninfrastructure.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tillman-infrastructure-llc/

 
 

Transcript

Jessica Denson (00:08):

This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband from closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds. We talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods. On today's podcast, we're focusing on the nuts and bolts, so to speak, of what it takes to connect more people to high-speed internet. I sit down with leadership from Tillman Infrastructure, a rapidly growing carrier, trusted tower company that develops, owns and operates assets, providing connectivity infrastructure to communities across the us. We'll discuss the challenges for expanding that critical infrastructure, find out what it really takes to connect small towns and farmlands and ask how the company's global experience can be leveraged to help close the digital divide in America. I'm Jessica Sen, and this is Connected Nation. I'm Jessica Denson, and today I'm joined by Alex Schwartz, vice President of Business Development and program Management at Tillman Infrastructure. Welcome, Alex. Alex Schwartz (01:09):

Hey, thanks, Jessica. How are you doing? Jessica Denson (01:12):

I'm good, I'm good. Just got over a cough. Just for our sake. I asked Alex to move this because I could not do an interview for a while there, so thank you for accommodating. Alex Schwartz (01:22):

Yeah, I'm extremely flexible. Jessica Denson (01:25):

Yeah, appreciate that. Before we get into Tillman infrastructure's focus and work, I'd like to share with our audience a little bit about your background. I want our people to know who we're talking to, so where did you grow up and how did you land unquote in the telecommunications industry? Alex Schwartz (01:42):

Yeah, I took a roundabout route to the telecom industry, so I grew up actually in Manhattan, in New York City, and after college I was focused on media and advertising. I went to the University of Pennsylvania and there I met a guy named Satya Deja, whose family are behind the driving force behind Tillman Infrastructure and the Tillman Global family of companies. And I didn't have a finance background. I didn't have any background except for media and advertising, and I actually always joked with him and his dad that I would be a real asset to the family. Kind of a funny joke, because I was doing influencer marketing and they were doing finance and hard assets. In the fall, winter of 2017, I got a call from Satch and he said, Hey, if you're serious, but we might actually have a role for you. We're doing this big, very important build out across the US and we think that you would be a great candidate to help lead that from a program management perspective. I had had a lot of with big programs while not in telecom, in advertising and a lot of account and client management experience. And at the time I was really excited by, after talking to a couple people in the company by the mission of the company and of the space more generally. And I took that leap of faith and joined in January of 2018, so it'll be five years come January of next year. And it's one of the best decisions I've ever made overall in my life, not just my career. Jessica Denson (03:31):

Why do you say that? Why was it one of the best decisions you ever made? Alex Schwartz (03:34):

Well, I think that the Tillman is a really unique and special company. I think that it's rare to have a mission oriented, mission oriented company that has seen this sort of rocket ship growth. And I've been lucky enough where it was and continues to be really the best of a startup and a really kind of mature company. And so for me to be able to make that sort of early to mid-career move and step into such an important role and be a key piece in the growth that Tillman has seen, it was really a wonderful decision and continues to be a great experience. Jessica Denson (04:22):

And as a comms person speaking to a former marketing media person, I think it's really forward thinking that they could see how your skillset would fit into that with organizational and that type of things. Have you really learned a lot over the last five years and grown that skillset since then? Alex Schwartz (04:41):

Oh my God, yes. I mean, in so many different ways. I had a lot of production experience from one media person to another. So I started my career with N B C sports, and I did a lot of production work, PA work for Sunday Night Football, the Philadelphia Dog Show. I went to the 2012 Olympics. By the way, the Philadelphia Dog Show was the worst job I've ever had in my life. Oh, really? Yeah. Jessica Denson (05:05):

You can't say that without telling us why. Alex Schwartz (05:07):

Well, I mean, have you ever seen Best In Show? Jessica Denson (05:09):

Oh, yes. Alex Schwartz (05:11):

It's not so different. Jessica Denson (05:12):

Oh, wow. Alex Schwartz (05:13):

I would say. But yeah, and I had done a little bit of product work and really the job I had before coming to Tillman, I ran our relationship with the N F L and Major League Baseball. And so I think they saw that as a transferable skillset, right? Is Jessica Denson (05:33):

It Alex Schwartz (05:33):

So different to be working as a small company relatively with the N F L or Major League Baseball or NASCAR as it is with at and t, Verizon and T-Mobile, right. And Jessica Denson (05:48):

Being Alex Schwartz (05:48):

Able to have deliverables that are required for different projects and manage a timeline, manage a, and ultimately manage a team. And for me, in terms of have I learned a lot? I mean, oh my God, yes, so much. My wife and I joke, it's like my life is split into two. It's like pre Tillman and Post Tillman. For me personally, it's been a truly life-changing, let alone career changing decision and move for me. Jessica Denson (06:20):

That's fantastic. Just not to talk about me, but I will for a moment. I have a background in broadcast, so I understand exactly when you say that organizational skills because you have to organize things down to the second to really do those things that you're talking about, and that includes people, places, product, all the different types of technology. So I can appreciate what you're saying. So the Tillman infrastructure is really, it's one part of a larger company, correct? That's family owned then? Alex Schwartz (06:52):

Well, Tillman is a standalone entity, right? We're a truly independent tower company. And then there is a Tillman Global Holdings, which is a holding company run by the Ahuja family T and Sanjeev. And their mission is to stand up innovative communications infrastructure companies across the world. Jessica Denson (07:22):

And I will include a link to the website and the description of this podcast just so our audience can explore a little bit more. But in the US specifically, it's only been here for what, five years? Since the time that you started, or has it been longer? A little Alex Schwartz (07:39):

Longer. When I started, it was really a nascent company, but it had been around for several years, but we really got going with our growth, call it from 2018 onward. It's been really parabolic in terms of the amount of sites that we've been able to build. I mean, just for background on Tillman infrastructure, we are a truly independent carrier friendly carrier, trusted build to suit macro tower company. And so in plain English, we build cell towers across the us We have built thousands of towers, raw land, macro builds, not rooftops, not through acquisitions over the course of these past five years. Jessica Denson (08:26):

And I noticed, why does it matter to be carrier trusted? I noticed that you said that on the website it says that the core values is fairness and transparency, and we said carrier trusted a couple of times. What does that even mean and why is that matter? Alex Schwartz (08:42):

Yeah, I think it goes back to the reason that Tillman infrastructure was founded. So to take a step back and look at the history of relationships between tower companies and the carriers, traditionally it has been, I like to say, a water in the Sahara business model for the tower companies. They're incentivized and their business has historically been how can we extract maximum value through any means from the carriers? And when Sanjeev and Satchin looked at the US market and talking to people at t and Verizon and T-Mobile, there was clearly room for a more strategic carrier friendly tower company, one that would treat their customers fairly, take a partnership approach to towers versus this really antagonistic and very challenging unsustainable model. And so when I say carrier trusted, the reason we hit on it so much is it's true first of all. And second of all, it's core to everything we do at Tillman. And it's been core to not only the company ethos, but it's been the driver of our growth. I mean, it's not a coincidence that we are carrier trusted and carrier friendly, and we've seen such growth opportunities with all of the carriers. Jessica Denson (10:02):

I don't think that's coincidence at all. That's smart business. And you mentioned that you develop, we've talked about you develop own and operate the towers. And I've heard a lot about, especially in recent years with the pandemic where we're trying to, there's more of awareness of the digital divide and the need to expand access to more people. I've heard a lot about staffing issues and finding qualified technicians right now is something that Tillman infrastructure is seeing. And if so, how is your company coping with that? Alex Schwartz (10:35):

Yeah. Well, I wouldn't say that we see it directly because we are the conduit by which networks get deployed. So we don't manage or build any of the active equipment, any of the backhaul. We are really just a enabler of the carriers leveraging their network. For us, we say it's dumb infrastructure. It's a pole in the ground, it's a secure compound. It's enough lease space for the carrier's equipment. And while the folks who build our towers are of course extremely skilled, it's not the skilled labor in the way that you're talking about it as far as network engineers, right? We've got really safe and excellent construction folk who develop the towers. We have really skilled site acquisition folk who make sure that everything is squared away from a regulatory and a leasing and an entitlement perspective. But ultimately, we have not seen that sort of slow down. And we're lucky enough to have really top tier talent in our organization and with the partners who we leverage to build out the assets. Jessica Denson (11:47):

So you're not really seeing, even with the tower equipment, there's not a backlog like you're seeing with other types of infrastructure related to broadband. Alex Schwartz (11:58):

For us, we are and have been the biggest builder of macro towers in the US and I think that that is a big reason that we, even in the pandemic didn't see a slowdown or a supply chain issue just because we have such deep and good relationships with all of our contractors. We're the biggest purchaser of tower steel in the country. And so we haven't seen those challenges. Of course, having good talent really helps, and it's always an ongoing process to try to attract and retain talent, but we've been really fortunate to have no real issues on that front Jessica Denson (12:41):

In the past. That's great because anybody I interview with the broadband infrastructure right now, it's been, we're behind. We need more technicians, we need more equipment, we need this. So that's wonderful to hear. So how do you do, just on a side note, how do you plan ahead for that? Are you guys looking ahead when it comes, when you say you're the largest tower steel purchaser, does that mean you're looking ahead for the next year, the next five years, 10 years? How do you plan for that? Alex Schwartz (13:09):

Well, we have, again, when you're in a position to be a partner to the carriers, to your customers, you have a good sense of what's coming down the pipe. And so for us, we're not doing any sort of forward buying. We buy materials on a case by case, basically a site by site basis. But what we're able to do is just like it's helpful to us to have that forecasted pipeline. We can give our forecasted pipeline to our suppliers, and it a really creates a really excellent circumstance by which they can have clarity into what's coming and how to staff and how to buy their materials. And so really it helps with an overall ecosystem. Jessica Denson (13:54):

What are some realistic timelines? So for you, you said you do it as the carriers need it. How long does it take to put a tower up? What are the actual, Hey, we're going to be able to tower on spot A, we're going to get it done by this time. Is it take three months? Is it a week long project? I mean, I have no clue. This is your area. So how long does something like that take? Alex Schwartz (14:17):

God, I wish it were a week long project. That would be amazing. No, I mean I think it's, no two sites are the same. So what I can tell you is that it depends wholly on the jurisdiction, on the landlord, on really a lot of different things. But for us, what we are trying to do is create a really transparent process for all parties involved, for the local municipality, for the landlord who owns the land that we're going to build the tower for the carrier, for our suppliers and subcontractors. And for us, what we're focused on is doing everything as efficiently, both from a cost and time perspective as possible, while maintaining that complete transparency. Jessica Denson (15:04):

Why do you think Tillman infrastructure has been successful? What makes your company really stand out? Is it that carrier trusted piece or is there something more there? Alex Schwartz (15:11):

I think it definitely is. It goes to a couple of things. I think the carrier piece that we talked about, that trust that we've built with our customers has allowed for this growth for the pipeline. But I think that also the executional excellence as well. I mean, we're blessed to have built up a really great team and system for developing these assets. And it's one thing to be carrier trusted, but that trust goes away pretty quickly if you can't deliver. And we've been able to, and taking on really challenging projects, really huge volumes of projects. It's really a testament to the organization as a whole that we've seen this growth come in as far as the pipeline, but then also have been able to execute on it. Jessica Denson (16:00):

And is there an area, are you more focused on urban or rural or is there kind of an even Stevens kind of thing going there? Is some of those thousands that you mentioned in rural and some in urban, or is there an area that you're focused? Alex Schwartz (16:18):

It's a great question. For us, again, goes back to we only build where the carriers tell us to build. So we're not developing anything on spec, nothing like that. And so you look at where the carriers are expanding their network. And so for us, our portfolio is predominantly suburban and rural. We're seeing real investment, which is great for communities across the US in connectivity in more rural areas. And we count ourselves lucky and pride ourselves with helping to be a small part of bridging that digital divide. Jessica Denson (16:54):

And are there some unique challenges when it comes to doing something in an urban setting or a suburban setting as opposed to a rural area? Alex Schwartz (17:03):

I would say generally there may be some more opposition to a tower. While everybody likes having cell service, not a lot of people want to have a tower across the street from them. But I'd say that honestly, it really depends on a case by case basis. Urban is challenging because there's not that much room. It's a fact. It's easier to find farmland in Nebraska with room for a tower than downtown Manhattan. Jessica Denson (17:34):

And does the type of technology that the carriers use that impact the tower, the way you build the tower or anything? I mean, that may sound like a ridiculous question, but I know we talk about No, it's not ridiculous question Alex Schwartz (17:43):

At all. Jessica Denson (17:44):

It's Alex Schwartz (17:45):

Not a ridiculous question at all. So we build the tower to the specifications dictated by the carrier and their rf, their radio team. So I think that predominantly in more rural areas, you'll tend to see a taller tower because they're looking for a coverage first play. Versus in an urban environment or a suburban environment, you might see a lower tower, first of all, because that's required in order to build that asset, but also because it could be more of a capacity need at that location versus the pure coverage that you see in a lot of parts of rural America. Jessica Denson (18:28):

And are you seeing any new technologies? Are you hearing any talk about that? Is that something that you guys are privy to that are coming up in this space? Alex Schwartz (18:38):

Yeah, I mean, for us, we're not so focused on the technology as a whole. We view it as a means of driving growth for new assets and co-location on our existing assets, which is very important to our business and something that we've had a lot of success with. Jessica Denson (18:59):

And what do you hope comes from the work that you guys are doing? I mean, we talk a lot at Connect Nation and a lot of broadband leaders about the importance of closing the digital divide and making sure people are connected. From your point of view, do you guys have conversations about that and why that matters? Alex Schwartz (19:18):

Yeah, I mean, I think that for us, it's really important to be a part of bridging the digital divide, and we've done that in a couple of ways. The simplest way is by building a lot of cell towers where there weren't cell towers before, and especially in rural America. The other way is that we just treat our big carrier customers really fairly and like partners. We do it the same for small partners like Wisps, for example, that are really important for bridging digital connectivity in these rural parts of America. A lot of tower companies don't take wisps seriously. They don't treat them well. For us, it's been a priority to be a wisp friendly and trusted partner and treat them the same way we would a at t Verizon, T-mobile dish. Jessica Denson (20:10):

And what do you mean by a whisk? Can you Alex Schwartz (20:13):

Wireless internet service provider? So in rural America, there are, as I'm sure there's building fiber or cable to the home, might not be the most cost effective option. And so as a result, cable companies, fiber companies don't tend to build in these areas. There are companies that provide internet access wirelessly by using our towers to host their equipment. And for a lot of folks in these communities, Jessica Denson (20:45):

When you don't have anything and you're told to use satellite, which can be good, if you have nothing, it would be great to at least have wireless and have some sort of speed and more access. I could completely understand that. So I won't keep you all day, but what do you hope comes from the work In your perfect world, what do you hope to see next for Tillman infrastructure? Alex Schwartz (21:08):

I mean, what I would hope to see is continued and sustained growth and an ability and a willingness to step up and execute, tackle tough challenges for the carriers and be that partner to them on a go forward basis. Jessica Denson (21:28):

Thank you so much, Alex, for talking with me today about what Tillman infrastructure is doing in the us. I really appreciate your time. Alex Schwartz (21:34):

Thanks so much Jessica Denson (21:40):

Again. My guest today has been Alex Schwartz, vice President of Business Development and Program Management at Tillman Infrastructure. I'll include a link to the company's website in the description of this podcast. I'm Jessica Denson. Thanks for listening to Connect to Nation. If you like our show and want to know more about us, head to connect to nation.org or look for the latest episodes on iTunes, iHeart Radio, Google Podcast, Pandora, or Spotify.