Connected Nation

Special series: Inside NACo - from the "science of where" to casinos everywhere

July 15, 2024 • Jessica Denson • Season 5 • Episode 30

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On this special episode of Connected Nation, we talk with the head of government solutions for Esri; the national director for the public sector at Big Health; and a leader for Tunica County, Mississippi about the unique needs of his county, which includes six casinos.

Related links:
Esri
Big Health
Tunica County, Mississippi

Special series episodes list:
Inside that National Association of Counties Annual Conference - Ep. 25
Inside NACo - what Black leaders say their communities need - Ep. 26
Inside NACo - talking collaboration, counties, and...corgis? - Ep. 27
Inside NACo - two innovations that can make your life more stress free - Ep. 28
Inside NACo - how USDA Rural Development supports county leaders - Ep. 29
Inside NACo - from the "science of where" to casinos everywhere - Ep. 30 (current)
Inside NACo - covering what county leaders should know about AI, cybersecurity, and more - Ep. 31


Jessica Denson, Host (00:02):

This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband from closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds. We talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods.

(00:16):

On this episode of Connected Nation, we continue our coverage from the National Association of Counties annual conference and exposition, taking place in Tampa, Florida. We talk with the head of government solutions for Esri, as well as leader in mental health for the organization called Big Health. And we talk with the supervisor for District four of Tunica County, Mississippi about the unique needs of his county, which includes servicing six casinos. 

I'm Jessica Denson and this is Connected Nation.

(00:50):

 I am standing with Richard Leadbeater, who is the global manager of Government solutions for Esri. Correct, I get that right. Talk about what Esri is for those who don't know. Connected Nation knows it well. It's a tool we use, but talk about what ESRI is.

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (01:08):

We're all about geography. It's about getting data that you have in all your repositories, all the various different forms of data, getting it onto the earth, getting it onto a map, and being able to have the earth be the index. The common index between all these data sets, between your broadband reaches and where the residents are versus your repeaters versus your facilities, getting it all on the earth gives you that ability to look at it in the same light.

Jessica Denson, Host (01:34):

And it's really a GIS tool, correct?

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (01:36):

Correct. Absolutely. It's a geographic information system tool.

Jessica Denson, Host (01:40):

There's a lot of people that are calling it geospatial. Is it still GIS for

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (01:44):

You guys? It's still the D bell. We'll ring it and we'll be there. Geospatial is kind of a new way of just talking about it. It's still locations. I don't like using geospatial. It's a redundant term, but it does describe what we do very well. People understand it. Gotcha.

Jessica Denson, Host (02:01):

And why do you do it? Why do you just love this kind of technology and data?

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (02:06):

I've always been a visual thinker. In seventh grade, if there was a map in the textbook, I got an A on that part. I could always think about what the image was, what the map was, and those relationships were kind of a natural thing. And I think it is with a lot of people. That's why people love the National Geographic. That's because they had that map and in grade school you had that map on the wall. So it means a lot of things to a lot of people. And when you present their own data in map form, you can see the lights go off. And that has always made my job fun.

Jessica Denson, Host (02:39):

So what's your background

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (02:41):

Geographer and had no idea what employment was at the time. GIS was just getting started. It was a very old version of ARC info that I first used. My first class was called Auto Cardo. Oh, very clever. I've been here.

Jessica Denson, Host (03:01):

So you wanted to stand in front of this board that you have at the exhibit to talk about Esri. Tell me why this was important for us

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (03:08):

To stand here. Well, this is a board that describes some of our machine learning models that we have out ai. Everybody wants to talk about how new and exciting ai, but parts of ai, machine learning in particular has been around for 20 plus years. We've been able to do that large data collection, that large analysis of data, that the ability to show cracks in the street over years through imagery, reading imagery, and allow the computer to do the identification, to do the work. And it's a turning point. It's an inflection point to me.

Jessica Denson, Host (03:49):

So just for our audience sake, what we're seeing here are different images that say swimming, pool detection, tree detection, parking detection. And basically, correct me if I'm wrong, Richard, that the machine or the satellite is detecting that using Esri software.

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (04:07):

Is that right? Yeah. And not the satellite, but the satellite or the remote sensing or the drone is capturing the imaging. That image is being processed. It knows what a tree looks like, it's able to count them. It knows what a manhole looks like. It's able to count them. So

Jessica Denson, Host (04:21):

That's a form of ai?

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (04:22):

That's a form of ai, correct. That is AI be able to do that. Douglas County, Nebraska trained their AI to look for a compliant street curbs, and they were able to do what the public work said would be nine months. And many people to do that inventory, they did it at an afternoon.

Jessica Denson, Host (04:42):

So Esri was really looking at this years ago already.

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (04:45):

We were doing it years ago. Our users were doing this kind of work years ago is just a little bit harder

Jessica Denson, Host (04:52):

Really. I see. You also have some other things listed here like building a footprint extraction, crowd counting, oil spill detection. So those are just examples of

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (05:03):

The kinds of machine learning models that are available to our users.

Jessica Denson, Host (05:07):

But is it a wide open spectrum

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (05:10):

That people do about anything? Yes. It's because that's just a handful of the dozens of language models that we've already built that are available to be customized for your own data, for your own situation. The other important thing, building footprints and tree detections, swimming pool detections, solar panel detections, that's money to a county. They don't know that building was modified. They don't know that pool was built because they didn't take out a permit. So they're not doing the assessments on that. So when you're talking to a county commissioner, he's saying, oh, that's economy for my county. And so this is a great way to get those records, those 30, 50-year-old records about your assessed value of your homes up to date.

Jessica Denson, Host (05:57):

So I like that. The tagline is the science of where that's interesting. And it's got a globe. So are you global? It's not just the us. Oh yeah. Are there some different challenges or things that you guys do globally?

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (06:09):

Geography is pretty much common everywhere. Everybody needs to know where that street is, where that tree is, where that, whatever. So that in itself is very, very common culturally. They sometimes look for different things, but that's not the big stuff. We are a global company where we work with every country we're allowed to work with. We have users showing up at our user conference next week from all over the world. And I think it's that common denominator of the earth, the geography.

Jessica Denson, Host (06:42):

Is that the conference that's in San Diego? Yes, it is. Yeah. I believe some of our staff is going

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (06:46):

To be there. I think I've seen your name there. Yep. Yeah.

Jessica Denson, Host (06:49):

Yeah. So tell me, is there anything that's ever surprised you as you've been doing this work? Are there some interesting stories you have? Things you've found

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (06:58):

On the spotted? Sure. Eight years ago, NACO and League of Cities banded together to study the opiate problem. They brought together mayors and county council people to talk about it. I interjected myself and they're like, well, okay, Esri, you're about maps. What are you going to talk about here? This is a social problem. And at the end, they had this nice map of federal data of the United States, of the opiate prescriptions by population. And it was everybody oohed and awe. I'm like, oh my God, look at this. Appalachian looked horrible, this county looked bad, blah, blah, blah. And I got up and asked them to put the map back up and I actually tore the map apart. It was a really lousy map. It was old. It was SAMHSA data, which meant Medicaid, Medicare. So what they were looking at was the opiate problem for 65 and older.

(07:54):

They weren't looking at the national data, and that was an eyeopener to them. I mean, they knew about GIS, about public works, about how to do this. They never thought about this social issues or actually a spatial problem. One of the mayors there invited me to Rose County, gave me some data about hospitalizations of opiate overdoses, and he was starting the conversation saying, rich, the crack problem was over here and the warehouses and the meth problem was over here on the other side of the city. And I'm expecting a big blob here and a big blob there. And when I mapped it for him, the big blob was his neighborhood. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. He just went silent. And he was thinking a few minutes. He says, that's my neighborhood. And then he started piecing together, oh, our neighbors, their son got picked up by the ambulance. Oh, our neighbors, blah, blah, blah. I heard about all of a sudden it became personal. It wasn't a they problem, it was an US problem. That's what GIS can bring to a discussion, a policy discussion in particular,

Jessica Denson, Host (09:02):

And really trying to solve a problem. You need to know

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (09:06):

Your

Jessica Denson, Host (09:06):

Data and where,

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (09:07):

Yeah, you need to know where Boone County, Kentucky, they're working with their cable provider. The cable provider has to be able to make money. I'm making these numbers up, but they need 10 people in a mile to be profitable. Well, the county commissioner or the county judge got the federal dollars, said, okay, here's seven homes in a mile. I'll pay for the three using this federal funding. You build it out. And they did. So that was a great example of they wouldn't understand that problem until they had it on a map and they had no idea about the opportunity was just three subscriptions. And that knowledge allowed the county to build out a fantastic broadband

Jessica Denson, Host (09:58):

Community. Yeah, we've experienced that. That's a lot. How we use Esri is for data with broadband and telehealth and telework and stuff. Is there anything that you're excited about that's coming up with Esri?

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (10:08):

Well, I'll go back to the ai. I mean, I think this is the inflection point. I think everybody should make themselves aware. There's a lot of fear. It's not going to replace you if you get with it. It's like thinking about the internet in 1995, it was coming. We didn't know. We had no idea how it would change things. We had some imaginative thoughts, but still we had no idea With that experience and knowing that it can be disruptive and that it affects society and how children grow and all of those issues, well, we're a little bit less innocent now with ai, and we are projecting all of that into the fears that a lot of people have about ai. I think it's the inflection point right now. Everything is going to be supplemented by AI at some level. I mean even tools like Grammarly to check my grammar of a document I'm writing, that's ai. Now, one thing I see that's hindering the conversation is we're just saying AI, where it should be generative ai, machine learning, actual ai. Everybody's putting that into one bucket. So the problems with generative AI get spread across everything. So we need to bifurcate the discussions and say, you've been doing machine learning for 20 years, guys, that that's not new. The generative stuff that's new, and it's kind of a scary black box to be honest. We don't understand it. So the problems of one is not is problem have. That

Jessica Denson, Host (11:42):

Makes complete sense. So what about jobs in this industry? Do you just see them continuing to,

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (11:49):

I don't know anybody who can hire GIS specialists because they need five people and they can barely find one. It is not just the GIS specialist, it's somebody in health, somebody in social services, somebody in public works. You don't need to be the GIS person, but you're going to be using GIS tools to figure out where's my hospital service zone? Where are the indigents? Where are they located? Where are my services located? That's often different. How do I get that person suffering from an opiate overdose into treatment? Well, it's on the other side where it happened 30 years ago. So that's where the facilities are. So getting that data more active, more real, more interchangeable in how we operate our cities and counties and states.

Jessica Denson, Host (12:38):

Is that where Esri really can come in and help? Oh

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (12:40):

Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica Denson, Host (12:41):

And if a county leader or just any leader was interested in connecting with Esri, how would they do that?

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (12:48):

I'm always here at NACo League of Cities and a bunch of other meetings. They can always see me. A lot of 'em know me, and I always get them to say, okay, think of a question. What's the map you want? Not a council map, but what's the council? You want? Something keeps you up at night, go ask your GI IS professional. I want a map of see what they come up with. That's my challenge to them.

Jessica Denson, Host (13:08):

That's a great challenge.

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (13:09):

But Esri has regional offices all across the US and internationally as well. Call us.

Jessica Denson, Host (13:17):

Okay. It'll include a link to your website as well. Your description of this podcast. Before I go, what would your map be?

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (13:23):

My map be? Wow. That's a tough question because I'm always twiddling around lots of different ideas. Right now. I think AI is going to modernize public works in a big, big way. So all of these pictures that you're looking, when you describe the board, it's money. It's the economy of the government. It scared me when I found it out, but it's very, very true. Governments only collect 87% of what they're due.

Jessica Denson, Host (14:00):

Yeah,

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (14:02):

That 13% can be millions of dollars. Well just have better ability to collect those fees as monies. Use GIS for that. It'll pay for itself in moments.

Jessica Denson, Host (14:15):

Okay. Richard, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate

Richard Leadbeater, Gov't Solutions, Esri (14:18):

It. Thank you.

Jessica Denson, Host (14:19):

I am standing with Jennifer SCH Select, who's the National director of Public Sector for Big Health. I got your name right? Yes. Thumbs up. Talk about what Big Health does. It's pretty interesting.

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (14:29):

So Big Health is a comprehensive mental health platform that starts with care navigation to ensure that people are entering the care that is most appropriate for their need. But the heart of our program are our digital therapeutics, digital programs, which are cognitive behavioral therapy techniques delivered via an app on a personal device, so a phone or a tablet. And that allows people to access effective health care whenever and wherever they need that additional support.

Jessica Denson, Host (14:54):

Why is that important to have that? Does it take away some of the stigma or you're able to do it in your home or wherever you are? Does that help with that you think?

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (15:04):

Absolutely. So we know that mental health needs have continued to rise across the country over the last several years. And unfortunately, our provider networks aren't able to keep up with the need. So people are waiting a really, really long time to get in to see a provider. But we also know that there are people out there who are silent sufferers who maybe aren't ready yet to raise their hand and ask for help or maybe aren't comfortable because of some of the stigma still around accessing mental health care. So the digital programs are a great way for people to easily enter the mental healthcare system in a safe way because it's very private. It's care that's delivered again on your personal device, in your personal home, wherever you need that support. We also really focus on sleep as being a foundation of good, both mental health and physical health and safe. Sorry. Sleep is a very safe way to enter mental health because who doesn't need to sleep?

Jessica Denson, Host (15:52):

Oh, I need to sleep more, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. When you say that sleep is a part of it, how do you do that?

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (15:59):

One of our digital programs is called sleepio, and it focuses on cognitive behavioral therapy specifically for insomnia and sleep disturbances. And so the program is six to eight weeks long and delivers techniques session by session that help people to retrain their brain to associate their bedroom with sleep. So it helps people not only fall asleep faster, but to stay asleep. And again, the programs are tailored to each individual. So if perhaps my issue with sleep is that I can't fall asleep, I'm going to see different things in the program than perhaps you. If your issue is that you wake up a million times overnight,

Jessica Denson, Host (16:36):

And that's an app you can just download on your phone.

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (16:38):

So we work currently through plan sponsors. So we work with a lot of employers who are providing services to their employees, but we also work with school systems to support faculty and students as well. And then we can work with counties through their county health departments to provide support to people that are accessing services through that.

Jessica Denson, Host (16:59):

And I take it, that's why you're at NACO this week. What have you been hearing from people who have stopped by your booth?

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (17:05):

So there is definitely a need for mental health supports, and a lot of the counties are already doing great work in their local areas, but again, are looking for new and different ways to tackle the mental health issue. Like I said before, there just aren't enough providers to meet the need of all of the individuals who are needing this kind of support. And that's why we're having a lot of great conversations here about some different things that can be done to support those areas.

Jessica Denson, Host (17:29):

So not only is it an online digital support, but if somebody needs something more, that's an option for them.

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (17:35):

Absolutely. We have a full network of therapists and psychiatrists as well. So anyone who is needing or wanting that additional support is able to engage directly with those therapists

Jessica Denson, Host (17:46):

And big health. I see that your badge is from California, but is it all over the country?

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (17:52):

Correct. So we are headquartered in San Francisco area, but our services are available across the country.

Jessica Denson, Host (17:57):

And how, if somebody was interested in it, how would they connect with you guys?

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (18:03):

So someone can connect directly with me or go through our website, big health.com, and there is a requested demo link and that information is sent directly to my team and we're able to outreach and support.

Jessica Denson, Host (18:14):

I will include a link to your website in the description of this podcast. Now, Jennifer, let's talk a little bit about you. What is your role as the National Director of Public Sector? What do you do with that?

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (18:25):

My role is to support all organizations that are in the public sector market. So we're talking about governments, education and labor unions as well. So I ensure that we are reaching out to new organizations to provide our services, but also supporting those organizations and effectively delivering that information out to the populations that they serve.

Jessica Denson, Host (18:44):

And how did you get into that? What's your background?

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (18:47):

So I have worked in mental health care for public sector for over 20 years. Come from a very public sector family with lots of family members in unions. My husband's retired law enforcement. So we understand the need for effective mental health care and have just really found it to be a passion to bring care to people who need it most.

Jessica Denson, Host (19:06):

Well, that's wonderful. Thank you so much, Jennifer, for joining me

Jennifer Schlecht, Public Sector, Big Health (19:08):

Today. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Jessica Denson, Host (19:11):

I am sitting at the NACO conference and exposition and people are starting to break down in their booths, and I caught Henry Nixon Jr. And his good friend here. What is your name, ma'am? Vicky. Vicky.

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (19:20):

I'm Nick Floyd and Associates.

Jessica Denson, Host (19:22):

Oh, I just gave him the last of our candy. Yes, ma'am. I asked if he would talk with us on the podcast. And you are the supervisor of District four for Tah County, Mississippi, correct? Correct. So talk a little bit about Tunica County. What is the county like? What is the area like?

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (19:39):

Tunica County is located in the Mississippi Delta. We have a population of about 10,500 constituents or citizens. We're a casino destination. We have six casinos and we are located about 15 miles north of Mississippi.

Jessica Denson, Host (19:57):

And is it just a beautiful area because

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (19:59):

There's a lot Vista? It's city, a beautiful resort area. We prepare and try to have the county looking at its best for our patrons that's coming in to stay, whether it is spending their money, whether it is visiting, whether it is stopping by and riding and see the many amenities that we offer. And we just love to have visitors come through.

Jessica Denson, Host (20:24):

That sounds like an invitation for everybody.

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (20:27):

Yes, that's right. That's right. Yeah.

Jessica Denson, Host (20:28):

So as supervisor for district four, tell me what you do in that role.

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (20:32):

Well, what I do in that role, of course we is five of us. Some refers as supervisors, some may say commissioners, same thing. What I do is help make sure the county is functioning at all levels, make sure we have a stabilized budget. I do a lot of community service when I'm here. I'm networking and I'm also taking back giveaways for my senior citizens community. Yeah. So it is a very challenging job, but I love serving the people. I'm also a principal at the high school. Oh, okay. What high school

Jessica Denson, Host (21:08):

Do you want

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (21:09):

To give it a say? Groveport High School. Groveport High School. Groveport High School. So maintaining the budget, making sure our Amen. Amenities stay beautiful, making sure the county is well kept. So we are just a good eye for visitors and want to come back. So yes.

Jessica Denson, Host (21:26):

And for Connected Nation, we're a nonprofit. We deal a lot in broadband. High-speed, internet access, digital skills, learning, technology planning, that type of thing. What are some issues that maybe that Tunica County has or needs when it comes to technology and broadband?

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (21:40):

Well, broadband, we have met with Congressman Bennett Thompson, Roger Wicker, Cindy Hyde, to get that broadband establishing our rural areas. And also a lot of our areas are on the septic tanks. So we're trying to get natural gas in a lot of our communities. And that's one big thing, the broadband natural gas infrastructure and also rooftops. Of course, you need the rooftops to keep our citizens there. We need the jobs, keep our citizens there so we won't lose populations to other bigger growing counties

Jessica Denson, Host (22:15):

With six stabilized casinos. How important is it to be connected?

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (22:20):

It is very important because the casino, we receive gaming revenue for the casino and that helps with the tax base, the school district, road streets, water. So we have to make sure that we help nurture them and keep them functioning and give them what they need, maintaining their roles and maintaining, helping them with the beautification of their outside areas. So we support the casinos in a lot of ways.

Jessica Denson, Host (22:47):

As a principal, I take it you've been an educator for

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (22:50):

26 years?

Jessica Denson, Host (22:51):

26 years. I was a good guess. 26 years. So you really were there through the pandemic. How important is it to have our kids connected as well?

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (23:00):

Our kids wants to understand how county government work, how the community work, how important that is, the services that we can provide to them as they become functioning self-sufficient adults. So I spend a lot of time explaining them to them, how county government work and how we can help their parents, how we can help them, and how also they can help us making sure the communities are thriving. The

Jessica Denson, Host (23:25):

Ranch. What about the education side of it though? Is it important for the kids to have in case they have to learn from home or do homework from home or that kind of thing as well?

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (23:35):

Yeah, it is. We have the Chromebooks technology assess. That's what Covid did. It offered another side of education. You don't have to be confined into the classroom. You also can use the technology part and the Chromebooks to help with that. We are doing well. We are B District. That's awesome. The state of Mississippi, we were taken over by the state in 2015. We were F district. So the last past nine years, we have grown from that F to DC. So the past three years.

Jessica Denson, Host (24:07):

So when you say that, it's like a grade, is that what that is? It's

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (24:09):

A grade in Mississippi. So when you fall in the testing and other standards in the state of Mississippi, educationally, you'll lose your district to the state and the state will provide a conservator to come in and manage that district. So in the past four years, we've been a beat district, so we just was released from the state's conservatorship.

Jessica Denson, Host (24:34):

Well, congratulations. That had to take a lot of

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (24:36):

Hard work. Yes, ma'am. Yes, yes.

Jessica Denson, Host (24:38):

So what is it that you love? Have you grown up there? Is that where you're from? Mississippi and county

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (24:44):

Area? Yes. I went off to college to Jackson State, and I attended Ole Miss Delta State Belhaven for my bachelor's, master's and specialist. And I just try to bring back my experiences and also mentor my children and also the children in the community to give them an outlook on whether they're going to be a worker, providing for their family, whether they're going to be a skilled worker or choose to go to college, give them the different options that I didn't have. I had to learn by mistakes. Yeah, me too. I had to feel my way and make a mistake. And then it worked out in education because a business major, so I ended up being an education major and it's been successful.

Jessica Denson, Host (25:30):

And you're a principal and

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (25:31):

Principal and elected official? I was a city councilman first for two terms. I was the first African American elected in the time. Oh, that's fantastic. And then I became a account supervisor. I've been four terms, so I've grown as a young man with naco. When I first was elected, I think I was 32. And so it is been a growing process for me and I really enjoy

Jessica Denson, Host (25:57):

It. How important is it for you to come to events like this naco, so you can learn

Henry Nickson, Jr., Tunica Co., Mississippi (26:01):

To meet different people and to talk and network and pick up some ideas to bring back to Mississippi? You meet people from all across the country and you're friends forever. I have friends forever through the last past 12 years coming to naco.

Jessica Denson, Host (26:20):

That's fantastic. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Henry. Thank you. I really appreciate you sitting down. I know I just kind of grabbed you asked if you'd talk to me, so I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. We'll continue our coverage from the National Association of Annual Conference and Exposition Center in our next episode. I'm Jessica Denson. Thanks for joining us. If you like our show and want to know more about us, head to connect to nation org or find us on all major.

 

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