Sounds from the Summit: Why 100% connectivity is a moving target in the Sunflower State

On this episode of Connected Nation, we continue our live coverage at the Broadband Communities Summit West conference. You'll hear from the Interim Director of the Kansas State Broadband Office as he discusses Middle Mile vs. Last Mile, BEAD deadlines, and Kansas's BEAD challenge process.

Recommended Links:
Kansas Department of Commerce - Office of Broadband Development
Joseph Le - Interim Director of Broadband Development at Kansas Department of Commerce Linkedin Profile

Past Broadband Communities Summit West episodes:
Sounds from the Summit: Episode #1

Chapters

• 1:22 Joseph Le introduction
• 4:47 How BEAD impacts connectivity in Kansas
• 7:57 Kansas vs. other states on the BEAD challenge process
• 10:26 Middle mile vs. Last mile
• 12:53 BEAD timeline

Transcript

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (00:07):
This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband from closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds. We talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods. On this episode of Connected Nation, I sit down with the interim state broadband director for the state of Kansas. We talk about the challenges of connecting everyone across the state, the opportunities and why there's a moving deadline for making it all possible. I'm Jessica Sen and this is Connected Nation. I am at the broadband community Summit West in San Diego, taking place October 30th and 31st, and I just wrapped a panel on digitization of Rural America and one of our panelists was Joseph Lee, who is the interim state broadband director for the State of Kansas. Thank you Joseph for joining me on the podcast.

Joseph Le, Broadband Development at Kansas Department of Commerce (01:00):
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (01:01):
You had some really great answers to our panel. Honestly, as I just said, I could have just listened to you talk and Lane who was with the Arkansas group, but it's just really interesting to hear it from somebody who is leading a state broadband office. Talk a little bit about what brought you there and why you're doing what you're doing.

Joseph Le, Broadband Development at Kansas Department of Commerce (01:22):
Yeah, so I actually was the state's deputy director of broadband development starting January, 2023. I actually came over from the state legislature after doing a stint in the state legislature as chief of staff for the House Minority Leader's Office. I had previously a background in it. I had worked for the University of Kansas' IT department as well as was a contractor with General Dynamics information technology. So after the then minority leader in the legislature decided to retire, obviously that put my situation into abin of what am I going to do next? And we found this very beautiful marriage between legislature, government and technology. So in this broadband world. And so I moved on over to the broadband Broadband development office and it's been a fun ride, exhilarating ride, and also a really revolutionary chance here to really expand broadband across the country.

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (02:17):
Now are you from Kansas? Did you grow up in Kansas?

Joseph Le, Broadband Development at Kansas Department of Commerce (02:20):
I am a Kansas native. I was born and raised in Salina, Kansas. Go Knights. But yes, that is home to me. I currently live in Lawrence. That is whereby alma Mater University of Kansas is, and so that's where I reside right now.

Jessica Denson (02:31):
They have a great journalism school.

Joseph Le (02:32):
They have a fantastic journalism

Jessica Denson (02:34):
School. Yes. So talk a little bit, the reason I ask you that is because explain to people who maybe have never been to Kansas, what Kansas is like and maybe what people get wrong or right about it.

Joseph Le (02:45):
Well, I will say we don't have as many yellow brick roads as I think a lot of people will love to joke about with the Wizard of Oz, stuff like that. But I will say we do have that Midwest charm. I think a lot of people have that stereotype and it's one of the stereotypes I'm really proud of. There is a Midwest charm. You could go into a room full of different strangers and they come out of that room, that first day best friends with every single one of them and everything about them between themselves and their families and their best friends as well. It's a really family oriented, friend oriented. We talk about the human element a lot about trying to make sure that everyone just knows that we're there for each other, we look out for each other. It's really truly that Midwest sort of culture.

Jessica Denson (03:25):
So share how that goes into your work. Imagine if that's where you grew up and that's kind of the way family and friends are. That has to be a part of what you do as a job. Right,

Joseph Le (03:35):
Exactly. And this is something I spoke about on the panel, that importance of communication with internet service providers. I really take my upbringing in Kansas, that ability to have a conversation and try to meet everyone where they are to be able to have, whether it's a good easy going conversation, a serious conversations, or even sometimes the tough conversations. And sometimes when you have to have those tough conversations, you got to do it in a way that's cordial, respectful, and making sure that everyone's still coming out of this relatively on the same page. And so that's really how I've embraced it in my line of work is communication for me is key because we couldn't be on two different ends of the program. We could also be on the exact same ends of the program trying to establish the same thing. I just want to make sure everyone's on the same page about it and if I can come and meet you where you are, that's a win for me.

Jessica Denson (04:25):
Before B, there were several states that didn't have state broadband offices, and it strikes me that you do have to have kind of the mix of the technologist and the person who can understand policy. Explain how, maybe you touched on it briefly, but how your background has really influenced how you're approaching this big issue of connecting all people in Kansas.

Joseph Le (04:47):
Well, bead is a funded program through the congressional laws, and so trying to interpret and understand all of that stuff, well, thankfully, for better or for worse, NTIA has taken a lot of that responsibility for that interpretation and put it down back to the states for implementation. But still there's a lot of that that we believe is still within the realm of the state to be able to interpret and see what is in the best interest of both the state, but also the providers and the communities we all serve. And so walking that balance of trying to interpret legalese policy, everything that's mandated by the legislation, by law and by the program requirements and breaking it down in such a way that not only can an internet service provider who's in this realm understand it, but also your everyday Kansan. I just had a conversation with a gentleman in Kansan, Kansas the other day where he was talking like, I don't understand how this impacts me more than making sure I can watch my NFL football on streaming services.

(05:45)
And I explained to them, well, this goes far beyond your just streaming services. The cell phone that you pick up every day to maybe call your friends, your family or your coworkers relies on those cell towers powered by fiber. You're trying to make an emergency phone call and maybe you need a medevac in rural Kansas. The GPS location is thanks to the triangulation of those cell towers, powered by fiber. Your other situations, maybe not necessarily for that gentleman, but telehealth is really taking off education and kids working from or learning from their home or needing to upload assignments and do all of that work remotely now is more and more prevalent than ever before. And then of course working from home is becoming a huge, huge thing. A huge thing right now that everyone's really adopting. It makes a lot more folks more efficient in their workloads.

Jessica Denson (06:30):
Saves you money if you have kids. Absolutely. I have cats. I have to always take 'em to the vet. I work from home.

Joseph Le (06:36):
Absolutely. Yes.

Jessica Denson (06:37):
So talk about where Kansas is right now and the process with bead.

Joseph Le (06:41):
Yep. So we just opened up our bead application portal on October 21st. Our allocation amount is $451.7 million. We plan to close our application portal on December 5th of this year here. So it's a 45 day period and that 45 day comes from a mandated day period that's within our approved volume tube by NTIA and we hope to make awards sometime 2025. Although every time I say something along the lines of we hope to meet this deadline, NTIA or other factors always find a way to break it. But that's the goal is once we receive all these applications by December 5th, we have a 10 day requirement to publish every single application we receive, whether we're reviewed them or not, they just need to be published for 10 days. 10 days to upload every single application on our public website, Kansas commerce.gov/broadband. And once that 10 days is over, we can start reviewing those applications and hopefully we can make some determinations by next year.

Jessica Denson (07:37):
It really struck me when you talked about talked timing of Kansas versus other states and those states that had earlier challenge processes versus those had later challenge processes. It kind of puts you all in different spaces. Being the first right now is a difficult thing, isn't it? Because people are figuring things out and the rules keep changing, right?

Joseph Le (07:57):
Yeah. We are, I believe the fifth state in the country to have launched our bead sub grant portal right now. And there are certainly some changes, or excuse me, some challenges that come with that. And some of those challenges, as I kind of spoke with on the panel is sometimes the guidance isn't there yet. And we are actually in that scenario right now as we speak, where we're trying to figure out how can we ensure that the state of Kansas is not unintentionally putting federally funded B dollars, which are taxpayer dollars in places where absolutely there is today, you can light up services with private investment that exists right now that is considered eligible for bead funding on our map. The state is not interested in funding those locations. So we're working very hard with NTIH to try to see if there is a mechanism that can be developed.

(08:43)
If so, how can that mechanism be implemented and this late at the stage for Kansas. But the benefit I also like to think of the bigger picture is states like us, like Louisiana, like Arkansas and others that are ahead, we're kind helping carve the path with the other remaining states and territories and firming up the guidance for them as they move through their application process. Kansas' final proposal is due on April, 2025, and assuming we don't get an extension because we can't meet that deadline, we'll have to move really fast to meet those deadlines to have recommendations.

Jessica Denson (09:16):
Yeah, that's six months basically.

Joseph Le (09:16):
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica Denson (09:17):
Yeah, that's a lot of work. So tell me about your team. Is it just you or do you have a full office that's working on this issue?

Joseph Le (09:24):
We do have an office, so myself included, it is currently staffed with nine people. You can see Shelly Pass right over there on the side.

Jessica Denson (09:31):
Yeah, she keeps taking pictures of us.

Joseph Le (09:32):
Yes, absolutely. I'm like, suck

Jessica Denson (09:33):
In, suck in.

Joseph Le (09:34):
Yes. No, absolutely. So it's nine of us total, including myself, once the director position is filled, that would make us an office of 10. And we're actually hiring three other positions right now. I believe it's three, a middle mile manager, an operations coordinator, and then another position that hopefully helped us with additional grants administration as well

Jessica Denson (09:54):
For Kansas. Let's talk Middle Mile versus last mile. We did touch on that in the panel. What do you see as the gold, the place that you really want to reach first?

Joseph Le (10:06):
Last Mile is definitely the most important connection for us because not only is that obviously what we need to do with tia's bead dollars first, because we don't have, unlike the luxury of other states that have a much bigger allotment, we have very little dollars that can be spent here to get to a hundred percent with bead. And so we have been absolutely last mile focus, the majority of our programs. That being said, we do have an award with the state. The E-M-M-B-I program did give a certain amount of allocation of middle mile dollars from NTIA to the state to build out our own middle mile network. And we're working very closely with providers, with partners to build out that Middle Mile network. And we do believe that that is going to help bring those last mile connections to a much more constant availability in terms of affordability for the end consumer as well. And so that marriage and relationship between that Middle Mile connection, that last mile connection is very important to us. But the majority of our programs as well as our focus right now is getting to those last mile connections, your household and your businesses.

Jessica Denson (11:10):
And you talked a little bit about the fact that it's not kit, it might not all just be fiber, it might be a combination there of that makes more sense, right?

Joseph Le (11:17):
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And our state right now, preliminary estimates suggests that of the 52,000 approximate locations that NTIA has approved us to be the final list of eligible locations, 97% of those we have designated as rural areas in Kansas. And so our preliminary estimates suggests that 75% of those locations will be funded by fiber and another 25% of those will have to be served with some sort of alternative technologies like license fixed wireless or a license by rule, fixed wireless, those sorts of technologies to be able to get to a hundred percent connectivity because we don't have enough funding with 451.7 million to do a hundred percent fiber build. And neither is that sometimes, from what I can see, whether it's trying to build through the Flint Hills, the Badlands in Kansas, does that sometimes make any economical sense when you look at the topography of the state either.

Jessica Denson (12:11):
So will that still be high speed though for most of these people or it's kind of like one of those things if you don't have it, you feel like anything's good, right. But is this still going to be a good quality for those people?

Joseph Le (12:21):
Absolutely. We do have a requirement that even if you're doing a license fixed wireless project, it has to meet the speed requirements of a hundred megabytes per second download, 20 megabytes per second upload as well with as low latency as you possibly can to have that be a qualifying broadband technology in our application considerations.

Jessica Denson (12:38):
So if all goes well and there aren't any changes or deadline extensions or rules, and in April you get things approved and you start to move forward, when will those people living in those farther to reach areas start to see something?

Joseph Le (12:53):
I really wish I could give you a timeline there. I hesitate to do so because I think I'm being pretty generous that we can even make awards by next year given how long it's been taking to get approvals guidance and working with NCIA as well as trying to clean up our own information as well as we move through the BEAT application process. A lot of our applications requirements revolve around speed to deployment and it's one to four years, four years and beyond are going to get zero points one year or less gets the maximum points awarded for that speed to it. So assuming hypothetically we can get the money out the door awarded by next year, customers can start seeing some of those LightUp connections as early as potentially 2026, but it'll probably be more realistically down the road from that point.

Jessica Denson (13:41):
Is that something you're hearing from people? Why is it taking so long?

Joseph Le (13:45):
Yes, absolutely. And it's one of those things that it's just really, we're trying to do it right. I know that there's been other sort of different broadband programs both federally and at the state level, but this is a historical investment by Congress and a historical effort by NTIA and by all the states and territories involved. We got to do this. Right.

Jessica Denson (14:07):
Well, I'm going to leave it there. Thank you, Joseph. I really appreciate you interim director of Broad. I'll try again, the interim director of broadband office for the State of Kansas, right? Yes.

Joseph Le (14:18):
Thank you so much for having me, Jessica. I appreciate it. You.

Jessica Denson (14:20):
Bye. On the next episode of Connected Nation, we'll continue our coverage from the Broadband Community Summit West taking place in San Diego, California. I'm Jessica Denson. Thanks for listening to Connected Nation. If you like our show and want to know more about us, head to connected nation.org or look for the latest episodes on iTunes, iHeartRadio, Google Podcast, Pandora, or Spotify.