The company whose innovation is inviting competitors to work together in the same space

We’re live from Connected America, exploring how internet exchange points (IXPs) improve connectivity across the U.S.! 

 Host Jessica Denson chats with De-CIX's Kelly Sieben, who uses a fun marble demo to explain how IXPs reduce latency and speed up internet access. Then, Ed d'Agostino dives deeper into why IXPs are critical for broadband expansion, how they impact everyday users, and why the U.S. is working to expand them beyond major cities.

Recommended Links: 

Kelly Sieben LinkedIn

Ed d'Agostino LinkedIn 

DE-CIX Website

Chapters

• 0:00 Connected America coverage begins
• 1:11 Marbles & the internet: Understanding IXPs
• 6:15 How IXPs reduce latency & boost speeds
• 10:26 Expanding IXPs beyond major cities
• 16:08 Looking ahead: The future of connectivity

Transcript

Jessica Denson (00:06):

On this episode of Connected Nation, we begin our coverage from Connected America, a conference taking place in Irving, Texas, which is near Dallas, Texas. The theme is delivering America's Connected Future. We begin by losing our marbles. I apologize for the cliche, I couldn't help myself. I'm Jessica Denson and this is Connected Nation. I'm at Connected America, taking place in Irving, Texas. I'm in the exhibitor hall of the conference and I have run into some of our old friends, dks and Kelly, Steven. And, uh, the thing that she has that she does every time when I see her at these conferences is this really cool demonstration I wanna say of what DKS does. So I'd like her, Kelly, hi. Hi. To talk us through what this demonstration is. Now let me tell you, there's like a little thing like what kids would have when they were, when they were younger, where, or any of us would have when we were younger. We'd have cars go down this little track except for she's got marbles. Kelly Sieben (01:11):

Uh, tell us what this is. So this is a, an example of how, um, an internet exchange works versus transit, and it's a marble run. Using one of those fun tubes kinda looks like a, like a mouse trap game. And, uh, we use it to explain our business. 'cause it's really hard to explain what an internet exchange does if we don't have something visible visual. Jessica Denson (01:30):

It is very cool. It, I think people stop because they wanna play with it <laugh>, but why don't you just talk us through what you're gonna do. Yeah, Kelly Sieben (01:37):

For sure. First thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna grab five marbles. Normally I have people grab their own marbles and we race them against each other. I'm gonna pop 'em up top at the start line. And this is the spiel I kind of give Wes, I walk people through it. So at the top we have our customers, and at the bottom of the race, we have our juicy, juicy content, all the big content scalers, whether it's Netflix, Activision, blizzard, Twitch, and so on. And so what we say is these customers wanna get to all this content. They wanna TikTok, they wanna FaceTime, they wanna play games, they wanna move watch movies, and they wanna do it all at the same time. So the, the question is, how does the ISP get them there? And in the middle of the, uh, of the track is the ISP dividing point where there's two ways the ISP could push the marbles. One, it could push them along a direct track through track, through an internet exchange like dks that goes straight to the content. One hop everything loads happy customers, or the other track goes through transit with the hops, the lag, the latency, and the uncertainty. Jessica Denson (02:38):

I love how you went transit. So that's not the way we wanna go. Then. Kelly Sieben (02:41):

Uh, I think you might wanna go the IX route through D Kicks. So, um, I'll get the race started. I'm gonna let the marbles go and we can listen to them and we're gonna see who takes the right path and gets the finish line first. Jessica Denson (02:53):

So she, yeah, we're ready. Go. So she's pushing 'em down and now they're coming through two different paths Kelly Sieben (03:00):

And the crystal blue already won it 'cause they took the IX path while there's two guys still hopping, lagging latency until they finished two. Jessica Denson (03:09):

Yeah. So what we have is, there's two different ways. Like she said, the IXP way or the DKS way is very straightforward. It clears the way essentially where the other, there's all these things that they have that the marbles had to go through. So they finished last. I'll take a picture and include it with the podcast. So Kelly, uh, talk about where DKS is. It's not just in the US correct? Kelly Sieben (03:30):

Yeah, so we're actually out of Frankfurt and we're celebrating our 30 year anniversary this year. Um, so we've been working in Europe for 30 years and in the US for 11 now. Um, and we are in New York, Phoenix, Richmond, Dallas, Chicago, and we just opened our newest exchange in Houston. Um, so we're really working to cover the US but we also cover Europe, Asia, and even dipping into South America with Brazil. Jessica Denson (03:53):

Uh, I'm kind of throwing, I'm gonna throw you a curve ball here. Why do you think a lot of groups don't really know about exchanges yet? Or we haven't done more than just put them in giant cities? Kelly Sieben (04:02):

Yeah, I think part of it is the, the, the foundation of an exchange is creating this mesh network and you need eyeballs and content to meet in the same place. So I think that's why we've seen a lot of exchanges in big metros. Um, I think as time goes on, I think there'll be more ways to connect exchanges from the edge or from second tier cities and whatnot. Um, but really DIX is, is all about connecting the ISPs where there are eye eyeballs and where there's content and being that meeting point in the middle, Jessica Denson (04:31):

I think, I think you explained that well. Yeah. <laugh>. So you're BA based in Memphis. Are is are the team, is the team all spread all over the place? How is that working together? Kelly Sieben (04:39):

Yeah, there's only 12 of us here in the US and we're all over. The maximum we have is three in Phoenix, so I guess that's our fake hub. Um, but we have an address in New York and everyone else is everywhere. Uh, just like our, our pops, we like to be across the US. Jessica Denson (04:55):

Well, thank you for demonstrating this for me. I know it's a popular thing. I'm actually right next to DKS for, to do the podcast and so I was hearing people cheer and I was like, we have to do something with Kelly. Thank you so much. Kelly Seban. Kelly Sieben (05:06):

Thank you so much, Jessica. I was great. Jessica Denson (05:09):

I'm at Connected America in Irving, Texas, and a few moments ago we got to see a demonstration of dks, little marble marble, marvelous Marble <laugh> demo on internet exchange points. And now I am standing with Ed Dino, which I hope I I got that right, right. <laugh>. He is, are you the CEO with dks or what's your official Ed d'Agostino (05:32):

Title? No, I, I just handle, uh, sales in the US Jessica Denson (05:34):

Oh, okay. Sales in the us I I promoted you <laugh>, <laugh>. So talk a little bit about what DKS does, and I will say for our audience, it is spelled DE, uh, and then CIX, but everybody refers to it as dks, right? Ed d'Agostino (05:47):

Right. It's, it's essentially Deutsche Land, uh, commercial internet exchange. Oh, okay. So we're outta Germany. So we're a German company. Uh, we're the North American arm. And, and so commercial means we're for profit, Uhhuh and IXs Internet Jessica Denson (06:01):

Exchange. So e explain, um, although we got the demonstration, explain a little bit more, um, maybe with a little technicality, which is a fine, our audience, there are a lot of technical type people, uh, what an internet exchange does and why it's important. Ed d'Agostino (06:15):

Uh, internet exchanges provide, um, if you will, uh, direct connectivity, uh, between networks that doesn't flow through the internet. Jessica Denson (06:24):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (06:25):

We allow networks to have the best possible connectivity that is, uh, doesn't run through others routers. So the routers of each party communicate with each other and all SLA back, there's no downstream routing. It doesn't leave the metro area. It is very specific. So it's designed to create the best possible connectivity between different types of networks. Jessica Denson (06:48):

And most of those are placed in larger, uh, metropolitan areas. Is that correct? Ed d'Agostino (06:53):

Yeah, peering exchanges are typically mm-hmm <affirmative>. In, in large centralized areas such that, um, usually content deploys in that area and eyeballs come in from the region. Jessica Denson (07:05):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (07:06):

Such that the regional eyeball networks, the ISPs can access content as as cost effectively and quickly as possible. Meaning just one hop. So an ISPs router talks to Apple's router, there's no intermediaries there. Jessica Denson (07:21):

So a, as a customer, what would a typical customer be for an IXP? Would it, it's a wide range, correct? Ed d'Agostino (07:29):

Yeah. I mean, in a, in the baseline it is content meeting eyeballs mm-hmm <affirmative>. But many others, uh, work within that. So for example, voice networks would be interested in connecting between multiple ISPs for the best possible voice connectivity. So it's not just, but, but typically ISPs want to reach the major content and smaller content providers, uh, easily, quickly. And we have a single vlan. What we do peering, all peering exchanges do, is we create a single VAN that allows scoping the, the aggregate connectivity. Um, it's not how much do I have to go into Apple, how much to Akamai, how much to meta, how much, but rather what is the aggregate amount mm-hmm <affirmative>. So over a single VAN, all of the traffic can flow to all of the other networks. So it's very simple for an ISP to reach, you know, vast amounts of content without having to, otherwise it's a cross connect or order connections to each of those. So it, it's, it's very cost effective relative to that. And it's, um, it displaces transit, if you think of transit is kind of like the super shuttle Jessica Denson (08:39):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (08:40):

It'll get you there, but you don't know how many stops between with where the Uber peering exchanges of the Uber versus the super shuttle that is transit. Jessica Denson (08:48):

Got you. And the, the marble kind of made a point, the marble demonstration kind of made a point of this is quicker, there's, it's faster to use an IXP. Explain what that really means to like the customer at home or to a business. Ed d'Agostino (09:02):

Yeah, so for one, we have, it's all, it's a, it's a different path between networks that is separate and distinct from their path or transit mm-hmm
(09:11)
<affirmative>. So it's, it's a, it's a better path. It's a, it's a quicker path. It has hops, it doesn't run through others networks, each of which can potentially have an impact, a negative impact on, on traffic. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, uh, on latency, on throughput, um, jitter. Um, so we have, um, it does have the best possible connectivity, for example, for an ISP reaching content, it's the least chance of, of having a c it's the best. I mean, assuming the last mile's good enough, it's the best, it's the best way of, of having the best user experiences. And content networks are aware of that as well. They support peer exchanges for the same reason. They want their content to appear, um, on the desktops or TVs of the, the end, the end eyeball people, um, as best possible. So both in, in both cases, the parties are interested in the best performance, the ISPs and the content. Um, Jessica Denson (10:09):

Connected Nation is working in the IXP space and kind of a unique model that's both for-profit and non-profit. Um, I know that we're working with D Cs and some of that, um, what are some areas that you think are really, that these are really needed? Is it just rural or is it There are a variety. Ed d'Agostino (10:26):

I mean, there's, there's, um, ips inter, you know, IX is mm-hmm <affirmative>. Uh, popping up throughout the us There's this growing, you see, um, growth in many markets. Um, you know, and, and so there is, there is a need for this technology, if you will, in, you know, throughout the country mm-hmm. Throughout the world, of course, but throughout the country. And we see more and more, um, um, IXs popping up and, and flourishing in, well formally less served areas. Jessica Denson (10:58):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (10:58):

So you see, um, and, and you see the support of potential getting content to the edge. One of the things that IXs provide is a place of content networks can go and then readily disseminate to the, to the various ISPs in the market. Jessica Denson (11:16):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (11:17):

At a central point, right. So once you're an central exchange point, they can reach the mall in, in a direct manner. So it is, it facilitates the contents move to the edge as well. And one of the things that we're working with connected nations is to, uh, is to allow, uh, new IXs, uh, that are, that are, um, that developed to have connectivity to our big regional centers Jessica Denson (11:44):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (11:45):

Such that, um, initially their customers can reach content as best possibly without ordering transport into the big regional core. So, um, more and more networks joining an ix a a new IX will help them get local content more quickly. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So this will help facilitate the growth of the connected nation IXs, um, via their connectivity to us and the, and the interest of the ISPs in the region of connecting them. Jessica Denson (12:16):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, DI is really known as one of the leaders in this space. Uh, and you did mention that you were global. How does the US uh, stack up? I don't know, but there may be a better words a way to say that against other countries. Are, are we leading in this space or do we really need to be working hard to get there? Ed d'Agostino (12:36):

I think, um, we've been lacking in the space mm-hmm <affirmative>. Overall. And partially it's a size our size, you know, if you think about, um, relative to Europe, you know, we have vast areas that in much larger, I mean, Texas is bigger than Germany. Jessica Denson (12:51):

Yeah. It's huge. Ed d'Agostino (12:51):

Right. So, um, you know, we have, um, and DCI says I should know this, but you know, multiple exchanges throughout Germany, Uhhuh, <affirmative>. So if you think about just the coverage vis-a-vis Germany, um, and essentially historically just ours and Equinix in Dallas to any size mm-hmm <affirmative>. So much, much less served than Germany, right. In terms of IXs. So, uh, yeah, I think there's, um, there's a lot to do in the market. There's a lot to do. Uh, we're, um, helping, we just announced that we're working with the S IX outta San Antonio. Jessica Denson (13:27):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (13:28):

So we're looking to, you know, facilitate, uh, the growth of, and we've launched in Houston to help Texas become more in the region, become more better covered. Jessica Denson (13:37):

I'm, I'm a native Texan, so I appreciate that <laugh>. Um, so, uh, what's next for DC? Anything you're looking forward to besides what you just mentioned, <laugh>? Ed d'Agostino (13:47):

Yeah. No, it is tough enough for us right now to build what we have. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, our interest is in creating very large exchanges, we're really going into each market, um, where we believe there needs to be a large number two Jessica Denson (14:01):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. If Ed d'Agostino (14:01):

Not a, I mean, there's, we see the market in the us, uh, at least the tier one cities looking for two large IXs. Certainly that's happened in Dallas and we see it happen in other markets. We're not in Miami, Boston, multiple. And that's why we went into Chicago to be able to be the big number two seemingly Phoenix mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, um, part of ours is, uh, our efforts is to, is to continue to grow our, our current, um, exchange footprint right now. And certainly Houston's the big new one. Jessica Denson (14:26):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, uh, usually I start our podcast, um, when I, when I have time to research with who the person is I'm talking to. So, talk a little bit about who you are and your role with the company and how did you end up with DCIX? Ed d'Agostino (14:42):

Um, I, I've been in the ix, um, industry, if you will, for mm-hmm <affirmative>. Quite some time. So, and former roles have had me working with IXs or, or with a tricked out ix, Uhhuh <affirmative>, so Jessica Denson (14:57):

A tricked out IX Ed d'Agostino (14:58):

<laugh>. Yeah. We, I worked with the ATE data exchange, which was essentially an IX who did some different stuff. Uh, layer two, much like it just like, um, no routing uhhuh. So, um, it's, it's a certain, certainly I've had a vast experience in this, so I was kind of a natural choice Jessica Denson (15:17):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (15:18):

Uh, and they just came around at the right time, so, so we have had, you know, extreme success in, in the US so far. Um, we've had our, our exchange in New York will soon become the number three on the continent. We're only a few behind any two west Jessica Denson (15:35):

Mm-hmm Ed d'Agostino (15:35):

<affirmative>. And we're certainly been outgrowing that. So we will be the third largest on the continent. And we're only just about 11 years old, not even yet. Wow. 11 years old in May. So, you know, very strong growth in New York. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And Dallas has followed on that. And, and certainly, um, Chicago, Phoenix, we took over the Richmond Exchange. So we've, we've grown a lot, but I, I, I lived the industry and I happened to be available and it was the right fit for me to, to develop this. It was, for me, it was, it was kind of a natural extension of what I've done in the past. Jessica Denson (16:08):

So, conferences like this, uh, I tried to talk to you earlier and I couldn't get to you 'cause you were bombarded by people, <laugh>. Um, who are some of the people that you're talking to or you're looking to talk to, or why do you come to these? Ed d'Agostino (16:20):

Well, we're always looking to talk to new people there. We find different uses. We primarily, um, we run into new ISPs at these conferences, but certainly others. Um, we do have many small content networks that connect to us, you know, small being not like the big guys, the Akamai and the Metas and all, but rather the smaller. So we, we do find small content at, at the various events, but largely it's, um, we're looking to find new ISPs who are not aware of, of our solutions. One of the things that we do is we're neutral, so we're available in various data centers as well. Um, and we even have partnership programs with out of metro area data centers. So there's a lot of, there's multiple types of network operators mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and partners that we can find at these events. So ISPs primarily, but we're certainly interested in, in speaking with many others. Jessica Denson (17:12):

And, uh, once before I let you go, one thing you said there was that we're neutral. What do you mean by that? Ed d'Agostino (17:18):

Um, we're, we're, we're not a carrier, we're not a data center. We don't do those services. So we are happy to play with carriers and data centers, and the vast majority don't see us as competitive. I mean, um, in the US really right now, I don't think there's a, a data center that considers us directly competitive. I mean, some of them have IXs Jessica Denson (17:41):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Ed d'Agostino (17:42):

But most of them, that's a little side business. And they'd rather have work with us because they know we can develop large that are meaningful in terms of moving their core business. Like selling colo. Right. Uhhuh. <affirmative>. So, um, usually for us it's, it's how to develop, uh, friends and partners. It's, there's very little, um, because we don't, we don't sell colo, we don't sell, we are not a carrier. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So virtually all of those are happy to work with us. Only our only true competitor would be another Direct ix and even another direct ix. We're, we're, we understand that in, especially in certain markets, that it's, it's, it's kind of, it's Jessica Denson (18:21):

Needed Ed d'Agostino (18:21):

Duopoly, essentially. Right. And we we're both there and both grow. So we, even, even our direct competitors aren't, aren't like as others might be who kind of help each other to some degree. Jessica Denson (18:32):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Uh, your booth is, I've been to several of these conferences and your booth has always got a lot of excitement with that, uh, marble thing. So, uh, Ed d'Agostino (18:41):

We went the Kelly show. Jessica Denson (18:42):

Yeah, the Kelly show is for sure. Um, so I appreciate you, ed. Thank you so much for talking to me. Ed d'Agostino (18:48):

Sure. Thank you very much. Jessica Denson (18:56):

On the next episode of Connected Nation, we'll continue our coverage from a Connected America. Until then, I'm Jessica Denson.