Inside the small-business talent crunch: Recruitment, retention, and hybrid work realities

On this episode of Connected Nation, we talk to a company that tailors its services to small businesses - helping them with whatever they need from recruitment to HR services to workforce development. 

We discuss solutions for the challenges small businesses face, including how to approach doing business in a time when many workers are asking for hybrid or remote positions only. 

Reccomended links:

Dana Syme Althoff Linkedin

Incipio Workforce Solutions

Chapters

• 1:22 Dana's role at Incipio Workforce Solutions
• 3:54 Incipio recruitment
• 6:04 Why retention is important for business
• 8:33 How small businesses can tackle remote work
• 12:49 The different businesses Incipio works with

Transcript

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (00:04):
This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband from closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds. We talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods. On this episode of Connected Nation, we continue our coverage from the fifth Annual Canopy Good Business Summit, taking place in Louisville, Kentucky. On this episode, I talk to a company that tailors its services to small businesses, helping them with whatever they need from recruitment to HR services, to workforce development. We'll talk solutions for the challenges small businesses face, including how to approach doing business in a time when many workers are asking for hybrid or remote positions only. I'm Jessica Desen, and this is Connected Nation. We are at the fifth Annual Canopy Good Business Summit, taking place in Louisville, Kentucky. And I have asked my neighbors, as I always do when I'm in the exhibit hall, <laugh> to chat with us on the podcast and they are with, uh, inci PIO Workforce Solutions. And I have Dana. Dana sign. 

Dana Syme Althoff, Incipio Workforce Solutions (01:12):
Yes, 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (01:12):
Ma'am. Who is the Director of Client Experiences. 

Dana Syme Althoff, Incipio Workforce Solutions (01:16):
Right? That's right. You got it, Jessica. 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (01:17):
So, uh, talk about first what Inci PIO does 

Dana Syme Althoff, Incipio Workforce Solutions (01:20):
Sure. 

Jessica Denson (01:20):
And then tell us what you do in your role. 

Dana Syme Althoff (01:22):
Sure. So, inci pio Workforce Solutions offers our clients anything related to finding, engaging and keeping the right employees for their business. So, lots of lots of people understand recruitment, but if we're gonna recruit people to your business, we wanna make sure you're also a great place to work and we can help you with that. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, my role is Director of Client experience, so I get the opportunity to oversee whatever partnership we have. So whether that's recruitment or HR services, I get to be the one that help oversee that for our clients. 

Jessica Denson (01:52):
And you're, you're hard to talk to, so you're probably 

Dana Syme Althoff (01:55):
Terrible at that yet. It's, it's so bad. People won't share anything with me at all. It's awful. You are talking to a former class clown of my, you know, just so you know, I am a little famous for that. 

Jessica Denson (02:07):
Oh, you're real famous. I've heard it. I've heard your name. I was like, Dana's gonna be there. The class clown. 

Dana Syme Althoff (02:11):
Exactly. 

Jessica Denson (02:12):
But, um, no, I've noticed you interacting with several people. Yeah. And you keep people engaged at your booth, which is hard to do sometimes. And all it's, it's, um, but, um, so you do everything from, in cpi o does everything from HR services to workforce development. Talk about the flow and how you work with a business to decide how you're going to help them. 

Dana Syme Althoff (02:31):
Sure. So let's talk from recruitment first. 'cause that's something that businesses know. Finding talent is not easy, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Especially for small and medium businesses that might not have an HR department or a recruiting team. The resources that it takes to identify who's really good out there and how do we get them to our company. If we are gonna start by finding a search, then, like we said, we also wanna understand what's happening at your organization. Do you have an opening because you're losing people? If you're losing people, then that's a different issue that also needs to be examined. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so we might, um, take a look at what retention looks like. Maybe there are opportunities to have stronger training. Maybe you need to engage your employees in a different way. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So, um, maybe your policies around HR are not clear. So all those different avenues that we might, um, take a look at and help build on to say, let's make this a really great place to work so that the people that you do bring into the company, um, are going to stay and help you grow. Because really, really truly, at the end of the day, your people strategy and your people function should fuel your business outcomes. So that's what we're looking for. It's like, how do you help businesses have all their people work aligned so that it, they can either grow or, um, meet whatever revenue targets they have for their own businesses 

Jessica Denson (03:46):
And for small or big, large businesses, all sizes. It can be difficult sometimes to take step back and look at yourself, 

Dana Syme Althoff (03:53):

Right? Yeah. <laugh>. Absolutely. And so that's why we always laugh that recruitment is the quote unquote problem that nobody is, uh, afraid to say out loud. Like, when you have an opening that's work that has to get done that some people don't have the resources to do, it gets a little more difficult to put the, you know, the mirror up and say, where might we have some challenges? And so that's where, uh, we do a lot to work in partnership. We see ourselves as an embedded resource. So we really want to understand, uh, the leaders, the decision makers in the businesses, what is it that is, that are blockers. And then we will ask for their transparency, <laugh> as we also provide transparency. Because sometimes that feedback can be difficult. You know, you might have a longstanding leader who's been amazing, but is not leading their team appropriately. What do you do about that? How do you, how can you help support in those areas? 

Jessica Denson (04:41):
And this, this, uh, summit's really about joy. 

Dana Syme Althoff (04:44):
Yes. 

Jessica Denson (04:45):
And you were talking about making businesses better, and that means even better placed to work and all those things is because you talked earlier when I was listening and you were chatting to me about what in CPO does, you were talking about retention 

Dana Syme Althoff (04:58):
Yes. 

Jessica Denson (04:58):
And the importance of that. Yes. So, talk, why is that such a struggle for a lot of businesses? Yeah. And why is it important to keep those employees? 

Dana Syme Althoff (05:05):
Yeah. So I think it's, it's difficult for businesses sometimes to think from the employer's, the employee's point of view mm-hmm <affirmative>. Right. Um, and the market over the last few years has been bananas. Yeah. Like, COVID has done a serious market, the digitization of the job search, Uhhuh <affirmative> has done a number on people's trust, right? Like, ghosting is out of control. So ghosting on both the employer side and the employee side has been really difficult. What do 

Jessica Denson (05:32):
You mean by that? Where people just don't even respond? 

Dana Syme Althoff (05:34):
Yes. Yes. So, um, you know, sending a job application in as a candidate and then never getting any kind of follow up. Um, and so the digital space is ripe with that, right? There's just so much information that's out there can be really difficult to deal with. And so when we think about, um, oh my gosh, Jessica, I've just given you such a good description. I'm trying to get back to the original question I was 

Jessica Denson (05:58):
Asking. Why is it important to have retention? 

Dana Syme Althoff (06:00):
To have retention Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (06:01):
To do retention? And why is that important for business? 

Dana Syme Althoff (06:03):
Yeah. Yeah. So, so there's so much, um, it's just been such a difficult road to figure out what it is that people really want at work to keep them engaged and keep them there. Because from the employee side, you see options all around you, right? Like you see job postings everywhere, and it feels like the grass is always greener, but the cost of doing business, the cost of replacing employees is so high for, um, and it's disruptive to business. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So think about a business that's very much driven by, um, their customer not getting the service that they expect. Well, they're gonna leave mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and so they only get the customer the, the, the service they expect if they've got the right people doing the right things. And so that's why retention is such a business killer. Yeah. I've also, I 

Jessica Denson (06:46):
Read an article recently, you can tell me if this is true or not. 

Dana Syme Althoff (06:49):
Sure. 

Jessica Denson (06:49):
But in the article they were saying it's often better to pay your staff more if they're asking for a raise than to try to find somebody more. 'cause it'll end up costing you more in the long run. 

Dana Syme Althoff (06:58):
It's absolutely true. Yeah. And you can do the math on it, because a lot of times it'll come down. We just had this recent situation actually, uh, where we were hiring a role for someone and, uh, they were trying to keep the budget at a certain level, but what they didn't realize is by not hiring at that position with, within that budget, they were actually spending more money on the search when they had a candidate that they could have just hired right then, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so investing in someone say they, even if they needed a couple hundred dollars more a month or whatever that might look like, is often a better choice and a better investment than moving on. Um, because it's expensive 

Jessica Denson (07:35):
And it probably breeds loyalty, I would think. 

Dana Syme Althoff (07:37):
Yes, absolutely. Ly no, absolutely. Absolutely. So to go to someone and say like, I'm thinking about leaving. If the, if the reason you're thinking about leaving is financial and to not receive any kind of like, engagement back and forth, money is not the only thing. Yeah. I mean, money is what, you know, it's part of it, but there's so many other factors. It's usually not research shows. It's typically not the driving factor that keeps somebody in an organization. But if you need something and your employer doesn't give it to you, it comes across as being disrespectful or not supportive of you, or not invested in you. And that's where people leave businesses, not because of usually the dollar. Gotcha. So you 

Jessica Denson (08:12):
Talked a little bit about, you talked about ghosting and the digital landscape that's out there right now. <laugh>, there is a huge demand among workers and employees to work. I, I'm lucky I get to work mostly hybrid. Yes. I'm mostly remote. 

Dana Syme Althoff (08:24):
Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (08:25):
Uh, but a lot of workers wanna work, work hybrid or remote. 

Dana Syme Althoff (08:27):
Yes. 

Jessica Denson (08:28):
How can especially small businesses Yes. How can they, how can they tackle that? 

Dana Syme Althoff (08:32):
Yeah. I think that's a great question. Um, I think part of it has to be, there are subtleties that are involved when it comes to remote and hybrid work. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. And so what people really want is flexibility. Yeah. That's what the workforce is demanding. They're saying like, we want to be able to live our life. And there are so many blurred boundaries these days about what is work and what is your personal life and all accessible all the time mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so what really comes into play is people saying, I need, I, I want flexibility. So if you are the type of business that can offer, uh, remote options to your employees, then you are going to get the, the pick of talent because there are more people demanding that than ever before. And for those types of businesses that can't do that, because they're, you know, manufacturing the people that work on your line that make the goods that we're buying, they can't do that remotely. But what could you do to offer flexibility if it's not a hybrid environment? And I think that that's what companies really need to consider is what that demand for remote is really saying, my life outside of this work is important to me and I need to be able to manage it. An employer, I need you to help me figure out how I can do my job well and also manage that and everybody get what they need. And so I think that that's what that conversation really looks like. The, the pandemic 

Jessica Denson (09:46):
Really shifted some of the American quote unquote mindset and business where before, you know, take 60 hours of my day and I'll figure the rest out to seeing what businesses could be done Yes. Remotely or with some flexibility. Yeah. So, yeah. 

Dana Syme Althoff (10:01):
Well, and there's also a demand to say like, businesses need to be measuring the output from their, from their employees, not their activity. A lot of times, you know, that makes sense. So it's like, how do you figure out if this is the work that, that the output that we need to get done from this role, then if that can be done in 20 hours a week, then that's fantastic. Right. So there's a lot of conversation about that too, and where, uh, return to work mandates have gotten a lot of pushback from employees, um, and feeling like they're micromanaged and monitored is certainly not the environment that people are looking to thrive in. 

Jessica Denson (10:36):
Yeah. That would drive me crazy. Yeah. Im lucky. Me too. Im lucky you just met my chairman and CEO and I'm lucky he, he'll give us me directions and let, lets me run with it. And that's the way I work best. And that's how most adults work 

Dana Syme Althoff (10:46):
Class, that's what they want. Right. The key word adults. Yes. 

Jessica Denson (10:48):
Yes. 

Dana Syme Althoff (10:49):
Exactly. Exactly. So clear expectations, autonomy to get done, what needs to get done. Right. And then where you're allowed to be flexible. And then that's when you get back to all those things also come from having really good leadership. 

Jessica Denson (11:00):
Yes. 

Dana Syme Althoff (11:01):
Like leaders have to feel confident. They have to know that they can communicate clear expectations and hold people accountable. And I think that was one of the, the worst things that happened is for leaders who had never managed remotely when the pandemic happened, they felt totally outta control. Right. Sure. How to handle. Right. They didn't have the systems in place or the work processes in place to feel confident that their team was doing what needed to be done. 

Jessica Denson (11:25):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Which makes sense. It could be, I mean, it is a whole new ball game if you've never worked remotely. 

Dana Syme Althoff (11:29):
Right? Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (11:30):
Right. And I was lucky I was already working remotely. Yeah. So, yeah. Same for me. Yeah. That went from a newsroom. 'cause I was journalist to that. Yeah. So it was like, whoa. A big shift, <laugh> so I could understand how it could throw a manager into a little bit of a loop. 

Dana Syme Althoff (11:42):
Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (11:42):
So and so at Inci Pio, let's come back and bring it back around. Sure, sure. Bring it back around. First off, I should tell you that, uh, connected Nation has been, um, by staff and voted best places to work like 12, 13 years. 

Dana Syme Althoff (11:54):

That's awesome. 

Jessica Denson (11:55):
Yeah. That's great. So we're very proud of that. And it's, it's a great, it is a great place to work. That's, and there, there are good things about remote, there are bad things about it, of course. Right. But, um, for Inci pio, do you guys work just in Kentucky or are you all over the country? 

Dana Syme Althoff (12:06):
No, we actually have clients that are all across the us. I think it's probably fair to say that we're a regional, uh, based business. Our corporate office is here in Louisville, Uhhuh, 

Jessica Denson (12:14):
<affirmative>. 

Dana Syme Althoff (12:14):
Um, our CEO is from here. We just celebrated our 10th anniversary. 

Jessica Denson (12:18):
Oh, congrats. 

Dana Syme Althoff (12:18):
And thank you. Thank you. And we, a a lot of our relationships come like totally through referral, right? Like, we're a known entity for many companies. And so that's how we grow our footprint. And so then we end up in other locations because our, our businesses might have different manufacturing facilities or different offices and different places. So that's how we get to work. 

Jessica Denson (12:39):
So your businesses that you guys work with are all kinds Yeah. All backgrounds. Yes. I noticed you were talking to the, the woman with Fox Hollow Yes. Uh, farms. Yes. Which is a great place. 

Dana Syme Althoff (12:48):
Yeah. It's awesome. It is. But we, we have a concentration in, um, manufacturing. Um, we work with several, um, companies that work in building. Um, so tradespeople, that's been a, a, a big challenge. And then, uh, long-term care is a focus for us. Um, but at the end of the day, we, um, you know, people are people <laugh> Yeah. And what it takes to support the people things and the people functions within any company. We've got, we've got somebody on our team that's got the expertise there. We have a wide breadth of partners that bring different experience to the table, which is really fantastic too.

Jessica Denson (13:22):
So before I let you go, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you a little bit about yourself. 

Dana Syme Althoff (13:25):
Oh, sure. How 

Jessica Denson (13:26):
Did you end up with Incipio? What is your background? 

Dana Syme Althoff (13:28):
Oh, I, I appreciate that question. So, and then I promise I'll 

Jessica Denson (13:30):
Let you eat before they 

Dana Syme Althoff (13:31):
Take the Oh, you're, don't take the sandwiches. Don't take the, haven't another chance. That's all right. I've got it outta my corner, the corner of my eye. Thank you. Yeah. Um, so I met Molly, our CEO about 15 years ago. Um, we both worked in the recruitment space at the time. Um, I went on to have a career. I moved in, in the recruitment area. I worked in learning and development and talent management for several years for Adecco Staffing. I was then recruited to work for Indeed, which many people are very, oh, yeah. So I worked in these really large enterprise environments mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, um, and then was really looking to concentrate in mo more small, medium businesses and make a little bit more impact mm-hmm <affirmative>. Uh, a little bit more directly. And, um, as Molly was continuing to grow in C pio, um, she had reached out. And so that's how this role has developed in order to help continue to grow mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so that's how I'm here. And it's really fun for me because every service that we do is something that I've touched somewhere along my 

Jessica Denson (14:24):
Career. Uhhuh <affirmative>. 

Dana Syme Althoff (14:25):
So I love learning from our clients about what their challenges are and how the different experts that we have on our team can come in and help them with that. So it's been really fun. 

Jessica Denson (14:33):
Are there unique challenges that are unique to the small business models compared to large 

Dana Syme Althoff (14:38):
Organizations? Um, yeah. I think that there are, there's not a lot of, uh, sometimes there can be a lack of rigor around things because it's like, oh, we're a small business. It's easy. Or scalability becomes, you know, kind of a, a challenge, right? That they think, well, we're small, we'll just talk about all these things and everyone will understand mm-hmm <affirmative>. But that can really pro prohibit growth. Um, and so making sure that you have some of the systems and clear expectations, and that you have a focus on leadership and excellence, um, in order to make sure that you can function. So I think those of us who have like a big, like I, like I said, I have this big corporate global background and I've seen systems in place that really do fuel those positive behaviors. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I think being able to bring that in can certainly help, because family businesses for example, that's a very specific one. There are lots of positive things about family businesses, but there are also some very specific challenges. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, maybe some blind spots or maybe, you know, some bias in a couple different directions. I see. Just because it's the way it's always been Uhhuh, so, yeah. But I, I find it rewarding to be able to use our experience at different size organizations to help no matter what size you 

Jessica Denson (15:41):
Are. Well, I'll include a link to the organization in CPO in the description of this podcast. Perfect. And again, Dana Simon, who is, I'm gonna look at my notes, director of client experiences as Incipio Workforce Solutions. 

Dana Syme Althoff (15:55):
You got it, Jessica. Well done. 

Jessica Denson (15:57):
<laugh>. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thanks. Happy to be here. Yeah. That concludes our coverage from the fifth annual Canopy Good Business Summit, which took place November 6th in Louisville, Kentucky. I'm Jessica Denson. If you wanna know more about us, head to connected nation.org and you can find our latest episodes on all major podcast platforms.