AI’s new demands on broadband: A smart-city reality check

On this episode of Connected Nation, we sit down with leadership from Dense Networks, which works with the public sector across the country. 

Find out what they're doing to help government organizations understand AI, what it means to "build versus buy", and predictions for how AI will be used long term.

Recommended links: 

Peter Murray Linkedin

Dense Networks website

Transcript

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Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (00:06):
This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband from closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds. We talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods. On this episode of Connected Nation, we head back to the Broadband Nation Expo taking place in Orlando, Florida. This time we talk with leadership from dense networks, which works with the public sector across the country, find out what they're doing to help them understand ai, what it means to build versus buy, and predictions for how AI will be used long term. I'm Jessica Dentson, and this is Connected Nation. We are at the Broadband Nation Expo taking place in Orlando, Florida, and I am standing with Peter Murray, who is Executive director of Networks. Welcome Peter. 

Peter Murray, Dense Networks (00:59):
Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Yeah. 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (01:00):
Uh, talk first, let's get into what dense net networks is, where you work, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Talk about 

Peter Murray, Dense Networks (01:06):
It. Well, we're based here in the, uh, greater Orlando area, Uhhuh <affirmative>. So, uh, this was a very convenient conference to be at. Um, what we do is, uh, we have two, two directions. One is we're a judicial consulting company. We work on smart city applications and digital infrastructure. Uh, some of my mostly focused on the public sector. Um, so some of my clients include Osceola County, where we're located Uhhuh as Philadelphia was a client, and then, and different, uh, members of public sector. And then additionally, we run the, um, smart Cities, uh, tour, which now is called the AI Infrastructure Roundtable. And we'll be in six cities in 2026, uh, where we get together with, uh, cities and counties, and we talk about the impact of ai. We look at the governance models, we look at the digital infrastructure model, and then we look at the use 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (01:54):
Cases. Okay. Let's, I wanna break some of that down and really dive in a little deeper. First off, let's talk about your Smart Cities tour. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So a lot of cities, that was the big thing in the last, over the last decade, was to become a smart city. Be a smart city, you know, being as in they're completely connected 

Peter Murray, Dense Networks (02:12):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Jessica Denson (02:13):
Um, how, how do I ask, how far behind are those cities that haven't gotten there and now have to contend with ai? 

Peter Murray (02:21):
Yeah. Well that, you know, sometimes a late mover has advantages as technology shifts 

Peter Murray (02:27):
Uhhuh 

Peter Murray (02:27):
So they can buy a newer platform. So that's the hope for some of them. 

Peter Murray (02:30):
That's a positive. Yeah. 

Peter Murray (02:31):
Um, but what's happening is, you know, smart city as a, as an umbrella is a wonderful concept, but generally it comes to being in iterations over years. Um, uh, so one of the biggest limitations, uh, we actually called it to Connected Cities Tour for a number of years because everybody was doing smart city and then they found out they didn't have the necessary, uh, digital infrastructure and broadband connectivity, uh, or wireless connectivity as well, um, for iot and things like that. So the last five, eight years, um, cities have been doing a better job in counties of, of deploying digital infrastructure. So that's, that's the one step, um, getting the applications, uh, you know, shot spotter and things like that, uh, come and go. But, um, digital, um, the, the use of the poles and use of the lighting, um, those are usually the one of the first steps because they can save money on LED lighting. And then as they do that, they look to monetize their poles. So, um, if you have, everyone's got some iteration, but generally it comes down to vision and then funding 

Jessica Denson (03:38):
Uhhuh <affirmative>. So do you feel that with the Smart Cities tour that, are you seeing a lot of public sector people coming in and looking for advice on going to ai? Is that why the shift to ai mm-hmm <affirmative>. Or are you just responding to the overall need that we're seeing right now? 

Peter Murray (03:53):
No, what we found, um, this year as we were going around the, the AI just kept coming up and, oh, we, we've been asked to do X, um, and integrate AI with X, and generally we related back to smart cities, and it was, the platforms just didn't have the processing power. Mm-hmm 

Peter Murray (04:09):
<affirmative>. 

Peter Murray (04:10):
Um, so as we went through the, we determined, you know, the network piece is falling into place, not perfect for sure. Yeah. But falling into place and it was the AI and, and what does it mean from an infrastructure, you know, everybody gets their chat, GPT or their copilot, but it's the infrastructure behind it. Um, and earlier we had Comcast, uh, I think it was CTO present, and he showed a series of slides and he showed how first football is a spike in the internet, traffic uhhuh when a football game occurs, <laugh> because of streaming. 

Jessica Denson (04:40):
Makes 

Peter Murray (04:41):
Sense. But then he said, he showed a graph, uh, where the chat GPT traffic and, and, and other, um, AI is rapidly, uh, increasing their traffic 'cause they're doing more and more with video and, um, image creation. Uh, Sora was one of the new services out there, Uhhuh that he referenced. 

Jessica Denson (04:59):
So AI itself, it, it takes a lot to just even power that. Correct? 

Peter Murray (05:04):
Yes. And you know, like, uh, we will take, um, like Miami-Dade County mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, they're on an AWS Azure platform, and there's elements where you can go in there and you can create your own scripts and your own models, and they're all sort of experimenting with that, but they, they don't have a full grasp on the full infrastructure. What's it mean five years from now? Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (05:25):
Right. 

Peter Murray (05:26):
Because the builder buy decisions are starting to, uh, percolate, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Uh, we, we know we're going to use this technology. We, we know we need to have heavy security and privatize elements of the models because you can't share all the citizen data. So what does that mean? Do we need to buy more equipment? Do we need more space? Um, or do we just put it all in a big hyperscaler data center and turn it all over to AWS or something like 

Jessica Denson (05:51):
That? So are, do you think we're gonna see different combinations of that down the road, or is there gonna be, there's not gonna be one size fits all necessarily? 

Peter Murray (05:59):
No, there is definitely not gonna be one size all, but just taking budget is an issue. 

Jessica Denson (06:03):
Uhhuh <affirmative>, 

Peter Murray (06:03):
You know, when you, when you go in and you make your changes and you do AWS and you're in there, uh, cloud, there's cost to all those elements, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So some of it can be brought down, but it's a scale, uh, issue and there's a crossover. Um, but it's the planning and strategy that we're, we're talking to now, Uhhuh, um, because it's a big question mark, but NVIDIA's on our tour, um, you know, they're the, the big seven today, they announced their earnings, and all of us know our stock, our, our 401k are gonna last year. <laugh>. Yeah. You know, I was just at their conference uhhuh a few weeks ago in DC and I mean, I've been a veteran of this telecom, uh, hype and all the different things, different stages, and I've never seen anything like I saw. Um, but, um, 

Jessica Denson (06:46):
What do you mean by that? 

Peter Murray (06:47):
The excitement level in, in that conference was just crazy. They had CNBC was in the middle of it, and they were interviewing guys worth 30 billion their companies or three years old, a robotics company, and it's worth 38 billion. 

Peter Murray (07:01):
Oh, wow. <laugh>, you 

Peter Murray (07:02):
Know, it's, it's that sort of thing that I remember back when we had the LD and the clec and those, uh, Uhhuh where, you know, you had 20 companies that were gonna get 20% of the market. That sort of economics were different in this one because Nvidia is sort of centralized mm-hmm <affirmative>. And the, you can identify where the real revenues are going and, and the growth curve a little bit better than we could back in the early telecom days. Yeah. So, um, 

Jessica Denson (07:27):
Because we've, we've had some experience now with the internet and everything and seeing how that flows, right? 

Peter Murray (07:32):
Yeah. And there was just, you know, there's definitely a big hype cycle out there. Uhhuh 

Jessica Denson (07:35):
<affirmative>, 

Peter Murray (07:36):
And you gotta sort through it, you know, core weave went way up and now they've come back down. Um, and they're more like our traditional telecom infrastructure data center, 

Peter Murray (07:45):
Uhhuh, <affirmative>, 

Peter Murray (07:45):
Um, so, you know, they tend to run one way, run the other. But I think this is a real, uh, you know, I don't know, you use AI uhhuh, 

Peter Murray (07:54):
But 

Peter Murray (07:55):
Just as basic use of it, uh, when you learn how to create agents and have them doing things for you as a small business person, you can create a staff 

Jessica Denson (08:03):
Yeah. 

Peter Murray (08:03):
Of virtual employees 

Jessica Denson (08:05):
That can help you with those things that are repetitive and take your time and Yeah. 

Peter Murray (08:09):
That's right. 

Jessica Denson (08:09):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, so for you running an ISP, do you think, um, are there, is there something ISPs need to be doing to accommodate that big flow of AI that's coming through? 

Peter Murray (08:20):
Yeah. And, and we're, we're helping the ISPs or the, the government, um, I don't have to run them anymore. I used to <laugh> <laugh>. That's the fun part. Um, but, um, yeah, they all have to determine where they wanna fit in that ecosystem, 

Peter Murray (08:34):
Uhhuh 

Peter Murray (08:34):
<affirmative>, because there's gonna be a tremendous amount of hosting and additional service that you could sell on top of the core digital infrastructure. So that, that would be my advice, is really step back and determine your core business and growth business. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And how do you find that crossover growth curve? Because there's gonna be tremendous niche growth within this, um, whether it's vertical market or it's one specific platform capability. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, so, you know, it's a, it's a fun time. It's a, it's a guy who's been around 40 years in this industry. It's, um, it's exciting Again, you know, for me 

Jessica Denson (09:10):
It's fun and, and something you don't know what's gonna happen next, we're emerging. That's, uh, I've talked to some, uh, some ISPs yesterday and one was telling me, um, that they're not only them, but others are laying fiber that ha are open cables, they're laying open cables for the possibility of something new down the road. <laugh>. 

Peter Murray (09:28):
Oh, you heard that? Well, you're talking about probably, um, with the conduit. Yes, 

Jessica Denson (09:32):
Conduit, yes. Thank you. 

Peter Murray (09:33):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. We, I mean, back in the nineties when I was building fiber, um, one of my vendors would put in their own conduit next to my, you know, we were paying them to put our conduit and our fiber in, well, they put their own conduits in, I won't name the company, but they sold for over a billion dollars. Oh wow. Back to, uh, eventually ended up with Crown Castle. 

Jessica Denson (09:53):
So not a bad idea then. 

Peter Murray (09:55):
No, it was brilliant. And frankly then it was a surprise, but now if you're not doing that, it, it's foolish. Yeah. Because the, the, once you open up the ground or you're on the pole, if you could put, you know, if you can put more cable up there or you can put more conduit in the 

Jessica Denson (10:09):
More future proofed it is, you think. 

Peter Murray (10:11):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and there's, it's coming, you know, there, there's more need. So, and, and some may just want their own conduit. They don't wanna travel in a, in a shared conduit. Mm-hmm 

Jessica Denson (10:21):
<affirmative>. So, so since you deal with the public sector more so than, um, your average customer, your, your, your residential necessarily, right? 

Peter Murray (10:28):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Jessica Denson (10:29):
Uh, is there a unique way that the public sector needs to approach the problems of connectivity and AI and emerging tech and that type of thing? 

Peter Murray (10:38):
Um, yes. Um, they first need to understand, you know, the difference of build versus buy and what that means to them, uhhuh. 

Peter Murray (10:46):
And 

Peter Murray (10:46):
The flexibility of, of having, say, fiber around your city so that you can, uh, you know, when you have a major application, the police have a, a safety application or video cameras, or they have a, um, uh, transportation has traffic lights. You can be in strategic locations, create hubs. You can, uh, network off of those. Um, a lot of 'em just don't understand the basics of digital infrastructure. They lease everything and they pay way more than they should also. 

Jessica Denson (11:14):
So, uhhuh <affirmative>, and, I mean, I can imagine, I can't imagine being voted into something and then you have to be the expert <laugh> on all these different things. So having the right person to talk to somebody like you from dense networks is critical. I can imagine. So this smart, the, what did you call the smart cities tour? Now it's called something 

Peter Murray (11:31):
Else now. Well, now it's called the AI infrastructure Round Table. 

Jessica Denson (11:33):
AI infrastructure. I imagine that that is probably like a welcome. Yes. Please. Let me get some information and some understanding of this. 

Peter Murray (11:40):
Yeah. The one we're doing in Miami is, is is hosted by Miami-Dade County and the city of Coral Gables. They're two leaders. Uh, 

Jessica Denson (11:48):
So are you, I know you haven't started the tour yet, but have you gotten some certain questions the same, similar ideas or thoughts from 

Peter Murray (11:56):
People? Well, no, no. There's, um, a lot of, um, concern about governance, uhhuh, and policy. Just, you know, how do we, how do we control this? Um, what platforms are we gonna operate on? Mm-hmm 

Peter Murray (12:08):
<affirmative>. 

Peter Murray (12:08):
In a lot of cases, um, in say a large county, the police may be going one direction, transportation may be going in another, and the admins in another, if they learn to pool those resources, uh, particularly with digital infrastructure, data center fiber, they can get more bang for their buck and get more capability. 

Jessica Denson (12:27):
Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot sense. So, Peter, tell me a little bit about you. What, you said you've been in the industry for 40 years, so where did you grow up? Did you grow up here in Florida? What's your background? 

Peter Murray (12:36):
No, I'm born and raised in New York City, uh, 

Jessica Denson (12:38):
Uhhuh. <affirmative>. Yeah, I could hear the accent. 

Peter Murray (12:39):
<laugh> <laugh>. I, I, I, I don't, uh, yeah. But, but, uh, I spent many years in Philly, which were great. I, I ran a partnership, uh, between the power company and a cable company. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Uh, that's where we were building all the fiber and, and certainly building fiber, having a partner that's the power company is a huge advantage, uh, 

Peter Murray (12:58):
Uhhuh. 

Peter Murray (12:58):
Um, and, you know, I live here now in, uh, the Greater Orlando area. Uh, a nice home, about 30 minutes from here. 

Jessica Denson (13:04):
Nice. 

Peter Murray (13:04):
Yeah. It's a very comfortable life. 

Jessica Denson (13:07):
Yeah. And, uh, did you always want to, were you a tech techie kind of guy always? 

Peter Murray (13:11):
No, I was a business development kind of guy. Uhhuh, who happened to graduate college the year at and t divested. And I went to Rutgers in New Jersey, which, um, was for at t's headquarters. 

Jessica Denson (13:22):
I have a friend who went to Rutgers. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Peter Murray (13:24):
<laugh>. My dad had worked for at and t and he gave me the one bit of advice I probably listened to, which was, son, do not work for at and t <laugh>, go to work for the competitors. This is the eighties uhhuh, which was really sound. And I built my career off of sort of being the competitor 

Jessica Denson (13:39):
And being the, 

Peter Murray (13:40):
Not being the big guy, being 

Jessica Denson (13:41):
Smaller guy, kind of. 

Peter Murray (13:42):
Yeah. And, and that's, um, that's fun. You know, 

Jessica Denson (13:44):
You, you, yeah. You seem excited about it again. I think that's pretty cool. 

Peter Murray (13:48):
Yeah, no, I, I, I, you know, we've been on some work together with Connected Nation Uhhuh, and you know, that was being in the trenches and, and doing what we know this is this sense of growth and, and unknown is fun. 

Jessica Denson (14:02):
Yeah. Again, 

Peter Murray (14:03):
Stimulating, 

Jessica Denson (14:04):
Exciting, stimulating. So what do you think in your mind over the next year to five years? Are we gonna see? What's your predictions? 

Peter Murray (14:12):
Well, you know, I'm not a good predictor. <laugh>, 

Jessica Denson (14:14):
I won't hold you to 'em, I promise. 

Peter Murray (14:15):
But, but you know, the obvious, um, more demand for digital infrastructure, um, wholesale adoption by just about everybody. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Of using just AI as a tool. But what I think you're gonna see most is applied AI sort of industrial, you know, we talked about industrial IO ot. At one point a lot of these applications were, were nice, but they didn't have, um, the capability, the, the power and the processing power. So we'll see, um, you know, what that means to the smart city, but I think you're gonna start to see more and more automation of routine tasks and for cities and counties just going into their database of in, uh, of information about the X and y with an agent that's mining it and looking for anomalies. And you're gonna start to find that they can become much more efficient, uh, with, with less. 

Jessica Denson (15:06):
So if people wanna get ahold of you. Are you on LinkedIn? 

Peter Murray (15:09):
I am on LinkedIn. Peter Murray. Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (15:11):
I'll clear a link to your LinkedIn and a link to Dense networks in the description of this podcast. 

Peter Murray (15:16):
Yeah, please. And, and look, AI infrastructure round table. We have a, um, about 

Jessica Denson (15:20):
7,200 of 2000 that kicks off. What date does that 

Peter Murray (15:22):
Kick on? On February 19th in Miami. 

Jessica Denson (15:24):
Oh, February 19th. That's our founder's day for our 25th anniversary. 

Peter Murray (15:27):
Oh, wow. That's good. Well, come on down. We're Miami. The water's warm. 

Jessica Denson (15:31):
Yeah, I like that. <laugh>. Well, thank you so much, Peter Murray with Dense Networks. I really appreciate it. Again, you're the executive director. 

Peter Murray (15:38):
Okay. Thank you so 

Jessica Denson (15:39):
Much. We'll continue our coverage from the Broadband Nation Expo on future episodes of Connected Nation. Until then, I'm Jessica Sen, and this is Connected Nation.