Design before you dig: How digital-first infrastructure can save millions

On this episode of Connected Nation, we talk with leadership from Trimble Inc., a global tech company shaking up the construction industry. The company's mission — to transform the way the world works. 

We talk about connecting the physical and digital worlds, construction solutions and challenges, and BEAD funding deployment. 

Recommended links: 

Trimble website

Gareth Gibson Linkedin

Chapters

• 4:35 Gareth's history with Trimble
• 9:27 Trimble's infrastructure
• 11:50 Some challenges and lessons learned
• 25:39 Big points in the geospatial industry
• 28:41 FTTH construction
• 33:41 How Trimble is tackling AI

Transcript

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (00:00):
This is Connected Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband from closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds. We talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods. On today's podcast, we talk with leadership from Trimble, Inc. A global tech company, shaking up the construction industry, the company's mission to transform the way the world works. We talk about connecting the physical and digital worlds, construction solutions and challenges and bead funding deployment. I'm Jessica Denson, and this is Connected Nation. I'm Jessica Denson, and today my guest is Gareth Gibson, the marketing director for the Utility sector of Trimble Inc. Welcome, Gareth. 

Gareth Gibson, Trimble (00:55):
Hi, Jess. Thanks for, thanks for inviting me. It's great to be here. 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (00:58):
Yeah. I'm glad to have you. And, uh, just so our audience will definitely notice a little bit of an accent, not just my Southern one, but yours. You are in New Zealand, correct? 

Gareth Gibson, Trimble (01:09):
That's right, yep. I'm, uh, based here in Christchurch on the south island of New Zealand. Um, tucked down in the bottom of the South Pacific, far away, uh, from the United States and the rest of the world. But, uh, yeah, that's, that's, that's where I am. It's a, it's a great place to live and grow up. Uh, and, uh, I've been here all my life. 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (01:28):
I I bet it is a great place to live and grow up. 'cause it's, it's just, uh, beautiful and the population isn't crazy, right, <laugh>. 

Gareth Gibson, Trimble (01:35):
Yeah. Correct. Um, I think no matter where you are in New Zealand, you're never too far from the mountains or from the sea. Um, and so, yeah, it's a physical landscape. All the stories that you hear, uh, about the Lord of the Rings, um, and this being Lord of the Rings country is, uh, is very true. 

Jessica Denson (01:52):
Yeah. I had a friend, and, and I know you don't know me, <laugh>, but I had a friend who actually got married in one of those, the, the hollows or the, where the, um, where the Lord of the Rings was filmed and they had the little houses still mm-hmm <affirmative>. There in New Zealand. It's very interesting. Um, it is it true that, uh, is, you call yourselves Kiwis, right? 

Gareth Gibson (02:11):
Yep. That's correct. Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (02:12):
And, um, is it true that you guys have a, a, a country that has a great sense of humor, <laugh>, it seems like everything I see from, from New Zealand is, is there's sort of a, a funny leftist center sense of humor. 

Gareth Gibson (02:26):
Yeah, we're pretty relaxed as a, as a nation and as a culture. Um, yeah, I think, uh, there's a, there's an anecdote around everybody in the world being separated by no more than six degrees of separation. But in New Zealand, we like to say that it's probably only two degrees of separation. You, you either know everybody else or you know, somebody who knows that person. So, yeah, it's a, it's a small community, close knit, um, even though we're spread out over a relatively large, you know, country size, um mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, you know, there's lots of gaps between each other, but, uh, yeah, we all know each other and, uh, uh, like to live a relaxed lifestyle. 

Jessica Denson (03:02):
Um, what are some things that people get right or wrong about your country? Because I, I can't leave it yet. We still have to talk about it a little more. 

Gareth Gibson (03:10):
<laugh>, it's a great, it's a good question because, um, I said earlier, one of the things, uh, or we are located down in the bottom of the South Pacific, and that generally means that any map of the world, new Zealand's in the bottom right hand corner. But, um, one thing that does, uh, happen a lot is that New Zealand just gets left off of maps, uh, <laugh> altogether. And so there's this whole online community dedicated to this concept of New Zealand being literally left off maps of the world. So, you know, at the most basic level, <laugh>, our very existence is a classic case of the map not matching reality, which is, you know, perhaps gonna gonna be a bit of a tie into to some of the things we'll talk about today. But, um, mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah, that's, that's something that always makes me chuckle whenever I see a world map, is to make sure that New Zealand's actually on it. 

Jessica Denson (03:55):
<laugh>. That's interesting. I would never have thought of that. Um, also, you know, just as a side note, I didn't put this in our, uh, I do a lot of, uh, research in advance and send a script, and we talk about that with your team beforehand, but Connected Nation, actually, we had a team that went to New Zealand and did some digital skills training about four or five years ago. And they were, they were telling me that it was some of the nicest people they've ever met. Um, and one of my friends said they were just like, Texans, <laugh>. 'cause I'm a Texan, I get to say that. <laugh> maybe, maybe a little more liberal. Um, let's move on now to your professional background. You've been with Trimble for quite a while. Uh, talk about your journey there and why Trimble is a great place to work. 

Gareth Gibson (04:37):
Yeah, sure. So I, I grew up in the north island of New Zealand, and, and educationally I studied, uh, at a university with a, a sort of a multidisciplinary background, um, a bit of a jack of all trade style of, of, uh, of education. So I did some engineering, some design, some finance, some economics and some marketing. And, and I ended up knowing a lot about, well, a small amount, about lots of different things, but not being a, a total specialist, which has perhaps, um, being good for me and ultimately ending up at, at Trimble as a tech company. But, um, through that degree, I, you know, I, I, I had my first exposure to the utility sector. I interned at a, a local electric electricity distribution, uh, company. Um, and that was my sort of first taste of infrastructure. But, um, out of university I started working with a software startup, and it was small and niche, and everybody got to do, um, a little bit of everything.

(05:36)
Um, but I joined Trimble not too long into my, into my working life, and I've been here ever since. So, you know, just over 20 years, uh, with Trimble. And it's, and it's interesting because that's not so unusual, uh, for, for people that work here. Um, there's a large number of staff that, that have a very long tenure. And I think it's the sort of organization that provides enough diversity in the roles and the types of work that we do that everyone just wants to stick around. We're doing cool things, um, making amazing technology. And we have a sort of a foot in both worlds of, of the physical outdoor world as well as the, the, you know, the high tech innovation world. And that's a really dynamic and interesting mix, which just makes people want to stay. Um, and that's, uh, and that's, uh, I guess true for me, uh, as well in the, in the years that I've been working at Trimble. 

Jessica Denson (06:27):
And that says something that you worked at a startup. 'cause generally there's this idea at startups that, that is the challenging thing. You're trying to figure out the next thing, as you said, everybody does something. So for Trimble to keep you engaged for that long, is it just that, uh, the company's leadership really looks to the next thing? What is the next moonshot? What is the next thing we really need to be addressing while also being on the ground in the now? 

Gareth Gibson (06:52):
Yeah, we have a, we have a real culture of, of innovation and belonging and growth. And I think all of those three things really fit really nicely together. And so there's this, I guess, this, this enjoyment factor that, that I get out of, out of Trimble. We, we have the benefit of scale as well, which also means there's almost this element of being a startup type organization where there is so many different things that we do as an organization. It's quite hard to put Trimble in a box to say, this is the type of company that we are. And I even have, um, you know, I even have trouble describing it to my friends and family, what it is that I do, uh, each day of the week, or what type of company Trimble, Trimble really is. And so I think, you know, there's that, um, we have the benefit of startup culture, but with the benefit of scale and also being a really large organization with, um, you know, resources, uh, to, to do amazing things, which I think is, is part of what I really love about working here. 

Jessica Denson (07:51):
Uh, where is Trimble headquartered? 

Gareth Gibson (07:54):
Well, we, we began our journey, um, you know, a, a long time ago, uh, headquartered out of the Silicon Valley in, in Sunnyvale. We were, we were founded by, by a gentleman called Charlie Trimble. Um, but in 2022, our headquarters were moved to, uh, to Westminster, Colorado, um, sort of in, in that part of the United States there. And that's where our, that's where our main, uh, uh, hub, uh, is located. But we have, um, we have offices and, and research and development centers throughout the world. So for example, Christchurch, uh, where I live, um, is one of our larger, larger development centers. But, uh, across Europe, Germany, we have several locations. Sweden is also a stronghold in, in that part of Europe, uh, for our construction and heavy civil engineering technology, uh, parts of the organization. Um, yeah, many different parts of the world. And, and ultimately that helps us, uh, in our mission, which is, you know, being a glo having a global footprint and serving customers the world as well. So whether that's North America and Europe or, um, in the utility sector or, or farming, um, in Brazil, in Australia, or construction, uh, in the Middle East, um, or, or roads and transportation infrastructure. And, and in the remotest parts of Africa, we kind of have a, we have a story to tell and, and, and we are doing business and, and building solutions for customers all over the world. 

Jessica Denson (09:19):
Um, so you deal in all kinds of infrastructure, not just broadband or digitally based technology infrastructure, is that correct? 

Gareth Gibson (09:27):
Yeah, that's, that's correct. My role as the, uh, I guess the, the sector or the industry, uh, strategy lead or marketing director for, for utilities really means all of the utilities. So everything from, from water to, to gas to electricity, um, transmission and distribution, uh, through to fiber, uh, as well. So we, we describe it, uh, you know, at the very high level in that way. And, and talking about the, these types of infrastructure at the, at the asset level from a, from a project or a program, from, from planning all the way through to construction or through all the way through to, to management, uh, and maintenance of those assets over their lifecycle. 

Jessica Denson (10:08):
So I can imagine having a company that can, um, understand, or a, a larger company that can understand these infrastructure projects that can be huge in scale, right? Every, do you deal with just bigger projects or is it all over the, the, the place, and I, I wanna get into broadband in a minute, but I really wanna set the stage for some of the projects that you guys have experience in. 

Gareth Gibson (10:34):
Yeah. Well, I think that we, we address, uh, we address sort of the full spectrum of, of the sector. Um, we, we work with very large key accounts, um, directly, um mm-hmm <affirmative>. In, in Europe and in North America especially. Um, but all around the world. Um, and, and our business model is to also, uh, serve the market in the form of small and medium sized contractors, well, who are serving those utility organizations, whether they're public or privately owned and operated organizations. We, we have a, um, a way of, of working with, with both small and medium and large sized organizations, um, and a different path to market for each, depending on what is the most appropriate thing. Like, I think that, um, especially for these small organizations, we need feet on the ground and we work through our distribution partners and business partners to address those types of companies. And so for those very large enterprise scale organizations, we tend to work more on a key account basis, and, and we can work with them directly too. 

Jessica Denson (11:36):
What are some challenges, or at least, or lessons learned when you go from the digitally designed plans to filled reality? Are there things you guys have learned along the way that can be applied again and again? 

Gareth Gibson (11:49):
Yeah, I, I think that comes back to, um, to the mission that, you know, that we, that we have in terms of, you know, what Trimble is and, and, and how we think about, um, applying technology to the construction sector and specifically, uh, construction in the utility space. And, and maybe even more specifically in the, in the fiber industry, we talk about transforming the way the world works, and we do that as an organization by trying to connect the, the physical world and the digital world, and having a two-way conversation or a two-way flow of information between, between those worlds. Um, I think the, you know, the major lesson learned is, is around disconnects, um, between the plan mm-hmm <affirmative>. Uh, and, and the reality. Uh, so to use the, the anecdote of, of what New Zealand is like, um, you know, Lord of the Rings country, it's beautiful. There's lots of rivers and streams and mountains, but in the context of building our infrastructure, um, you know, the mountain doesn't care about your project GaN chart <laugh>, 

(12:59)
Right? Um, and if the, if the plan has a design that needs to, to go through a mountain or, um, you know, through, through, through some granite or rock that you didn't know about, the mountain is gonna win every time. And so the lesson that we've, that we, we, well, that we've learned and that we're trying to apply through our solutions and to tell our customers, and the story that Trimble tells is the importance of, of building and basing designs on a map of reality. And that can only happen when there is a, you know, a real strong connection and flow of information between the field and the physical world and the office, um, and the digital world. 

Jessica Denson (13:39):
And is that what you guys mean when you say, um, changing the way the world works, like really paying attention to how those two worlds, the physical world and the, uh, and the digital world interact, overlap, um, how they inform each other, all of that? 

Gareth Gibson (13:55):
Yeah, absolutely. Is it's about establishing that constant two-way conversation between the project design and the office and the real world conditions out on the job site, because that data needs to flow in, in two directions from physical to digital. So if you think about a fiber crew trenching in a, mm-hmm <affirmative>. I don't know, let's say a suburban neighborhood, the plan looks great, but they discover, for example, I don't know, maybe they discover a tangle of, of decade old pipes or, or infrastructure that wasn't in the design or wasn't in the plan, in the old way of working, everything would stop. Um, whereas in our world, the crew is capturing those real world conditions, um, the mud, the exact locations of those surprise, those surprises that get discovered when you start digging and then feeding that instantly back to the team in the o in the office so that they can update and maintain that central digital model. Um, because the ground truth becomes the new plan, um, the, 

Jessica Denson (14:54):
It makes sense. Yeah. 

Gareth Gibson (14:55):
The cost of not doing that's really expensive, right? Um, 

Jessica Denson (14:58):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Gareth Gibson (14:58):
I think, uh, I don't know if we wanna quote a number. The Common Ground Alliance talks about the cost of striking underground utilities in the US alone at around $30 billion annually. That's a huge, huge number. Um, just from not knowing, um, in the office what the real reality is in the, in the physical world, right? So our mission here, transforming the way the world works is to, is to change the way that work is done so that that $30 billion hog can go away, um, the other way and say, yeah. 

Jessica Denson (15:31):
So on that point, are you cutting down? Are you saying that you're cutting down on, um, stop work stoppages and you're actually like solving the problem as it happens kind of thing and interacting with each other and, and making, having solutions instead of having to go back and pull everything back and start over? Is that right? That's, am I reading you right? That's correct, 

Gareth Gibson (15:53):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. You're wanting to, you're wanting to avoid the mistakes from happening because that's the mm-hmm <affirmative>. That's the cost, the cost of, of, of, of making the mistake is not just the cost of, of hitting something that you didn't know was there and needing to, to repair it. It's the lost productivity of the crew. It's the lost productivity of the, of the community. Um, when everything grinds to a halt and the project takes a lot longer and people don't have access to, to fiber or to any other utility for that matter, you know, gas or electricity or, or water, um, productivity plummets or, or nothing can happen, or even quality of life is, is impacted. And then at the very severe end of the scale, we are talking about avoiding, um, you know, significant and severe safety, uh, uh, issues and concerns as 

Jessica Denson (16:42):
Well. I like that. It's, it kind of reminds me <laugh>, this gives, uh, of NASA responding to problems in space. <laugh>. I know that sounds crazy, but that's where my brain went. It was like, oh, it's like when they have an issue and they solve the solution, be, you know, they may come up with the solution as it's happening. Um, it's kind of the way I, uh, analogies, it's a, it's a, I'm a comms person, so I wish I had an engineering degree, but I'm a comms person, <laugh>. Uh, so let's, let's explore some broadband and where, where this, the construction sector overall, some of the challenges that you have there kind of intersect and broadband specifically. Are there some issues that you see coming up that can be circumvented along the way? 

Gareth Gibson (17:24):
Yeah, I, I, I think, I think that there are, so one of the biggest, and this this applies to, to not just fiber, but to all infrastructure types. One of the biggest issues is that disconnect between the physical world and the, and the, and the, and the design world or the, you know, the, the plan, um, you know, no plan survives contact with the enemy is the, is the classic

(17:47)
Anecdote. And in the context of, of deploying, uh, or building out infrastructure. Um, if your plan is not based on a, on a physical map, that if, if your plan is not based on a map that is a, a reflection of the true reality of the above ground, uh, and the below ground conditions, then it's highly likely that, uh, your plan probably isn't worth the paper, that it's, that it's written on, and that you will come across something that is going to delay your project, uh, or compromise the success of your, of, of your project, either through the, through the, um, the delivery and the installation of the infrastructure, uh, or through the longevity, uh, of the, of the resulting, um, of the resulting product. The goal for broadband deployment, for example, is to build our infrastructure that lasts up to 50 years, maybe more, I don't know mm-hmm <affirmative>.

(18:43)
Um, but the reality is, is that a lot of the infrastructure that has been placed is not lasting that long, or is not lasting anywhere near that time because, um, because the design doesn't match, the physical reality changes are made by the crews, um, performing the installation, which compromise the integrity, uh, of the, of the materials going into the ground. And so you end up with something that should last 50 years, only lasting five to seven years. Um, and that's a, that's a big, big problem, uh, because the costs, um, because well, people don't get what they need, uh, and the cost of fixing those mistakes is probably even higher, uh, than it is to install things correctly in the first place. 

Jessica Denson (19:28):
And, and there's the whole question of future proofing, especially with things like emerging technologies and AI and all of that. Um, what's the broadband solu situation like in New Zealand from your point of view? 

Gareth Gibson (19:41):
Yeah. Well, we're actually pretty lucky. Um, around around 10 years ago, um, the New Zealand government launched a, a massive, uh, initiative called the ultrafast Broadband Initiative, or I think it was UFB. And the goal was to bring fiber to fiber to the home, or fiber to the premise of over 85% of the New Zealand population. Um, by most measures, it's been a pretty successful program because now in all of our towns and cities, we have access to world class, high, high speed fiber, and, you know, I'm talking to you right now. 

Jessica Denson (20:16):
Yeah, that's pretty 

Gareth Gibson (20:17):
Amazing, uh, using it. So, you know, it shows what can be achieved because there's a pretty clear vision and a pretty clear strategy. Uh, and there was sustained investment to get that done. Um, and yeah, we're, you know, we're coming out the end of that program now. It's not 100% deployment because we still have gaps, especially in, in rural areas. Um, but in general, um, you know, the vast majority of the population of New Zealand has access to fast, good, reliable internet, I think, if we want to. Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (20:49):
And when did, when was that, that, that, that that effort was underway? Has it just been in general, or is it, was there a deployment? 

Gareth Gibson (20:55):
Yeah, it was, there was a very specific deployment, uh, program. Um, so around 10 years ago was when the UFB initiative was initiated by the government at the time, and it was a sort of a centralized, um, effort across all of New Zealand. If I compare that to say, bead in the usa 

Jessica Denson (21:14):
Mm-hmm 

Gareth Gibson (21:14):
<affirmative>. Um, you know, we are perhaps lucky in that there is one central government organization, um, that ran the entire program or that that coordinated the entire program for the whole of whole of us. It was a nationwide approach. Whereas in the USA, yeah, 

Jessica Denson (21:32):
It's very 

Gareth Gibson (21:33):
Different <laugh>, much more complex, a much larger geographic space, um, fragmented, market driven environment. So you have this kind of patchwork effect, um, uh, or this quilt of, of connectivity where some areas presumably have great access and great service, and there are also these deep pockets, um, uh, of underserved, underserved, uh, underserved customers. Yeah. 

Jessica Denson (22:00):
Mm-hmm. I imagine though some of the, the issues that we have here with, um, geography, topography, you know, um, you probably don't have, you probably can build all year, where some of our northern areas you can't, uh, uh, there's some similarities that you guys have dealt with, right? 

Gareth Gibson (22:16):
Yeah. New Zealand is often seen as a bit of a test Bed Nation. We're kind of a microcosm, we get to, um, you know, we have a, a spectrum of, of, of geographic, um, conditions. Uh, we have a spectrum of sort of urban densification conditions in terms of, we have, you know, a handful of relatively populated high density cities as well as broad spaces of rural customers. We're a relatively tech forward and tech savvy nation. There's lots of innovation that happens in New Zealand, and as a result, we get used as, um, sort of a, a pilot, a pilot nation <laugh>, um, uh, for, uh, for, for doing things. We were one of the first countries to, to deploy, um, um, you know, electronic banking and, and wireless payment systems, um, you know, across the country. Uh, and, and from a, from a broadband and fiber initiative, I think that's sort of another example. New Zealand can be kind of used as an example for the rest of the world in many ways, of this is how you deploy fiber, and these are the benefits of going fiber first, um, in terms of access to connectivity and information and knowledge and all of the things that, that drives to fuel and really power the economy as a result. 

Jessica Denson (23:33):
Yeah. And I'm struck that this was 10 years ago or approximately. Mm-hmm. And, um, bead was, you know, just a couple years ago after the pandemic, when people realized, oh, this is not a luxury. This is something everybody needs, especially as nation, for any nation, I think any modern country really needs this to be able to be, um, a competitor, to have good jobs, to have good education, all of that. 

Gareth Gibson (23:57):
So yeah, that's a, that's a ahead point because, so during, for example, during the COVID, um, era, like you, you described this as the bead program was a, maybe an outcome in the USA of, of, of one of the, you know, one, one of the outcomes of the COVID mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, situation in New Zealand. We had a very different experience during COVID to the rest of the world, I think. And that was partly enabled by the fact that we were so far through our broadband rollout. Um, new Zealanders were required to, to, uh, you know, work remotely and isolate at home for a, for a long period of time. And it was partly enabled by the fact that most people had really good access to the internet already. Um, and so, you know, that would've been hugely challenging. Um, 

Jessica Denson (24:41):
Yeah, earlier today, I,I talked to, um, um, a leader, uh, the executive director of Mission Telecom, and he was talking about, we were talking about the issues of the pandemic and how people were going to McDonald's and library parking lots and school parking lots to try to have some sort of access because it was, it was, you know, connected nation. We're 25 years next year, and we've been hollering, Hey, this is important for a very long time, <laugh>, but it was suddenly, yeah. So, uh, applaud New Zealand for the good work you guys are doing. Um, while doing some research for this, I did notice you were pointing people in your LinkedIn to Trimble's, recent geospatial industry report and thought, I thought, well, you, this might be something you'd really like to share some details about. Uh, I will include a link to the report in the description of the podcast, um, as well as link to the Trimble's website. But what was really the big point in that geospatial industry report that you think that, uh, people should really understand? 

Gareth Gibson (25:39):
Yeah. Well, I'm glad you, I'm glad you saw it, um, because it's <laugh>, you know, it's, it's a report that, you know, our, our wider marketing team puts a lot of effort into. And, um, from a, you know, from a, from, you know, where does that information come from? We, we surveyed hundreds of, of industry professionals, and it was an international effort. Um, so, you know, it was people from all the way around the world to get a sort of their, uh, their pulse on the state of the industry, what the biggest opportunities were. But, uh, you know, a few things kind of really stood out for me. Um, and, and perhaps the first thing is, is that this entire industry is grappling with this, um, this idea of, uh, of labor shortages or, or retaining a skilled labor. So the great crew change, um, that was the number one business challenge that that came through really strongly in the report.

(26:33)
Um, so finding and retaining skilled labor is really hard, and it validates for me a lot of the things that is, that Trimble is doing, which is around empowering a new generation of workers with technology, um, and making, uh, making work able to be done more efficiently, um, faster, um, and more and more and more easily without needing to be necessarily a highly skilled, skilled worker. So that was, that was the, that was the first thing. Um, yeah. Uh, what else, what else came through in that report? Um, I think it, I think we, we, we should acknowledge the fact that the report found that utility sectors leading the pack in terms of adoption of digital twin technology. And so, you know, we've been talking about that a little bit as well, this importance of establishing this digital truth, uh, of, of a representation of the real world.

(27:33)
So more than any other industry utilities understand that, that having this single accurate living digital model of the network is no longer a nice to have. It's almost essential, um, because we are dealing with aging infrastructure or because we are deploying new infrastructure in places that need to coexist with aging infrastructure or unknown infrastructure, um, there's immense pressure, therefore, to improve the safety of that construction work and the resilience of the networks that is being, that are being constructed. Um, and the digital twin, or this concept of a digital twin is the answer, answer to that. And that, you know, that's, there's a direct correlation with the fiber rollout in the us, um, in that, in that way. 

Jessica Denson (28:15):
So did you guys, you guys surveyed people around the globe. So these are really, uh, a look at this sector through a global lens, right? 

Gareth Gibson (28:24):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah, we,

Jessica Denson (28:25):
Okay. 

Gareth Gibson (28:25):
We, yeah, we, we talk directly to, to, to users of our, of our technology, um, across, across the construction, the survey, the geospatial industry as a whole, um, to, to get their opinions, um, directly from the horses mouth. 

Jessica Denson (28:41):
Well, like I said, I'll include a link so people can really explore that further. Now, uh, let's talk some solutions. Um, we, you kind of, you've touched on this some throughout our conversation today, but, um, what is FTTH construction, you know, how can you make people, help people make digital constructable models before construction begins? Is that all interrelated <laugh> help someone who's not the technical brain, even though there are a lot of technical people who listen to this? 

Gareth Gibson (29:09):
Sure. So let's start by defining FTTH. So, um, FTTH stands for fiber to the home, and it's a gold standard for broadband. Um, in terms of broadband deployment, it means running a dedicated high speeded fiber cable directly to somebody's doorstep. So if you're a home, if you're a business bringing fiber directly to you, um, and in the context of construction, the challenge here is that it requires a massive amount of construction. And doing

(29:38)
And doing that efficiently is, is perhaps the biggest challenge, doing it efficiently, doing it safely, um, and doing it in a way that's gonna be, um, you know, done right and sustainable. So, um, we solve that problem by creating a digital constructable model before any construction begins. So historically, fiber to the home design was done, uh, based on perhaps an ideal two dimensional map, um, not based in reality. So the problem is the real world isn't ideal. And so the old way of planning and designing would mean that you would get a, a backhoe hitting a gas main that wasn't on the map, um, causing damage or causing, you know, um, delays or causing an explosion. Um, uh, and that's a real problem. The new way, the digital way, is to start by building a geospatial digital twin of the entire neighborhood before you design the network itself.

(30:41)
So we're not just drawing lines on a map, we are creating a precise 3D model of the environment that the new infrastructure is gonna go in. And that can be both above ground and below ground with the idea of capturing every single pole curb or existing utility utility line, the ones that we know about, as well as discovering new ones that perhaps were not in the previous, previous map or previous model. Uh, and then basing a design around that. It's not just about a pretty 3D picture, it's about building a constructible model. And that's the key here. Something that is based in reality. Um, it's also incredibly data rich, because what that means is you've, you've got this model that you can capture once and then ultimately use again and again and again, maintain it, keep it up to date, and you've got this rich, rich data set that is gonna provide value across the entire project, across the entire construction phase and through the, the operation and maintenance phase of the assets as well. So, 

Jessica Denson (31:46):
So, go ahead. 

Gareth Gibson (31:47):
No, no. Well, you, so you <laugh>, I guess the, the ideal here is that you're building that entire network virtually before you dig it physically and install it physically. So you can see how the fiber is gonna interact with the existing infrastructure. You can predict or prevent clashes in the design and solve them on screen rather than trying to solve them in the field. Um, 

Jessica Denson (32:10):
Uh, which again, it saves money and time like we were talking about earlier, correct? Correct. Correct. Um, so I was gonna ask, is this just for new builds and new construction, or can this also be applied to, um, improving, uh, current infrastructure, growing it? Um, you know, is it, is, is this generally used only for new builds, or is it across the board? 

Gareth Gibson (32:34):
No, I think it's across the board. The whole idea here is creating a digital map of, of, of reality 

Jessica Denson (32:41):
Mm-hmm 

Gareth Gibson (32:41):
<affirmative>. Um, and then when it comes time that, you know, maintenance needs to be performed, you've got a rich data set to refer to, to help drive those maintenance activities as well. So it's not just greenfield, it's, it's working, it's working with existing infrastructure and maintaining a source of truth which is accurate, uh, uh, to the best of your ability, um, because there's gonna be efficiencies and, and ways to, to improve the way you work all the way through an asset's lifecycle. I think something like 70% of an asset's cost is realized through the operations and maintenance phase. Um, that's so significant <laugh>, and so it's significant. Yeah, it absolutely is significant. 

Jessica Denson (33:27):
So, um, you know, I I, I couldn't let you go without having a little conversation about how AA AI impacts this or emerging technologies. Are you guys looking at that too and improving these constructible models? 

Gareth Gibson (33:41):
Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and trimble's, trimble's technology, um, leverages and, and, and makes use of, of those concepts already. Um, so we talk about, um, going into the field and, and using a, let's say a mobile mapping system to capture a, a precise point cloud, uh, of the above ground. And combining that with perhaps, um, a, a below ground sensor in the form of a, of a ground penetrating radar scanner to capture, you know, information about what exists below the surface that you can't physically see. That data itself is not all that useful until you can extract information from it. Um, you can extract information from it manually, manually clicking through the point cloud and identifying, um, pieces of infrastructure, you know, the curbs and the poles and the signs and the infrastructure, or you can also train, um, you can train models to automatically detect and to classify that data and to extract features as well.

(34:43)
And so, Trimble's been at the forefront of that type of technology for the longest time as well. Um, but I also see and, and expect that we'll see, um, you know, a continued evolution of, of AI and the use of ai, um, in the way that's become very mainstream in the, in the topic du jour, um, in the world at large today, which is this notion of, um, simplifying and streamlining field work by allowing, uh, almost conversational interactions with software tools and, um, and, and workflows to say, Hey, I, I need tell telling your, telling your software I need to do this, or I need to do that. And the software being able to interpret human, um, level interactions as well. So I think, you know, there's lots of, there's lots of stuff that, that will happen there. Um, I personally have an opinion that, um, this age of AI is going to only explode even further with, with the use of autonomous solutions.

(35:42)
So the, you know, machinery guidance and even robotics, um, uh, for example, will, will, everything is going to kind of come together. Um, I think, um, uh, and we're gonna, you know, we're, it's, it's just such a fascinating time, um, to think about all of this type of, all of this type of technology and the, and the ways that, you know, robotics and artificial intelligence and machine learning, um, and vision, computer vision systems are all coming together. Um, this convergence of technology and connectivity, um, as well as a, you know, a real need for efficiency, um, is driving all of these things altogether. So it's, it's, it's, it's a pretty fascinating time, technology wise, 

Jessica Denson (36:26):
If I may, it, it's interesting 'cause you, you sounded very excited about that, and, uh, I think that goes back to your, and you did a little bit of everything, engineering, marketing, design, uh, bringing all that together kind of, AI does all of that. It brings all these different ideas and thoughts together and with the emerging technologies that we can, I do think it's an exciting time to see what's gonna happen next and how people use it for good things. Um, for sure. Uh, what, what do you, are there any projects that you're, that you're really proud of, uh, for Trimble, that Trimble Inc just really is like, that is our premier piece of work that we look to, to, um, to duplicate or, or do that kind of quality of work? Again and again, 

Gareth Gibson (37:12):
I think in the context of the fiber industry, our mobile mapping portfolio, um, is a sort of a core and central technology pillar that, that we see being used and deployed again and again and again because of the efficiency gains that it enables. So, mobile mapping, um, for your listeners who may be unfamiliar with what that means is putting a, um, a scanning sensor on top of a, of a vehicle. What that allows a a, an organization or a field crew to do is create an extremely dense and rich point cloud of data, which is extremely precise, precise down to a millimeter, and it's capturing millions and millions of points, all completely geo-referenced of a corridor. And they're doing this at highway speeds because you're attaching this mobile mapping unit to a truck, and you're driving it down the road and it is scanning the entire roadway or the entire corridor, and capturing a full digital reality model of that road.

(38:14)
And it's capturing everything that it can see, trees, road signs, street signs, down to the level of detail of detecting cracks in the road so that you can potentially use that to determine, oh, I need to perform some repairs, um, or I can see that the road is degrading and that sort of thing. But it gives you that model that you can use to then base your design on in the context of an infrastructure or of a, a fiber project. Um, the amazing thing about this is, is the, you know, the, the, the speed improvements and the amount of work and amount of data that can be captured in a very short time, it's a, you know, it's an order of magnitude fast than sending out a field crew, um, on foot to do the same sort of thing. Um, and the safety aspect is also really important because you no longer have field crews walking around and capturing information on a busy roadway.

(39:04)
They're in the ve in the safety of the vehicle and driving, uh, with the traffic at the same speed as, as everybody else to use. Um, to use an example, uh, of a real world example of, of how this is being used today, um, an organization called planview in, in Canada, uh, Planview Utility Services, um, they were in support of a government initiative in Ontario to, to bring high speed internet to, to, you know, hundreds of thousands of unserved homes. So similar to the bead program. Um, and they were facing this, this, this classic challenge of how do we efficiently and accurately plan and design this fiber network across such a vast remote province. Um, and so getting a survey team to go out and do this on foot would be very difficult and very expensive because of the, the, the, the, I guess the geographic extent of the project.

(39:56)
They chose to use a Trimble mobile mapping system, um, and they were able to collect data over a, around 11,000 miles of roads. Oh, wow. And a two per a two, a two person team in a truck capturing a hundred to 125 miles a day. It would've taken them forever to do that by hand, uh, you know, on foot. And so, you know, it's just a, just an example of, of, um, of how that technology can speed up the process and provide something that's really, really valuable to ensuring the success of these, of these, these fiber rollout projects. 

Jessica Denson (40:30):
Yeah, that sounds like an incredible technology. And, um, we've done some filled validating across our years of time in the broadband space, and it does take a long time. Um, so, uh, I, I can't, I can't keep you all day. I know you have a workday. It's about 10 45 there in the morning, and it's about 4 45 in the evening here. So, <laugh>, uh, what are your final thoughts that you would really like people to understand about Trimble and specifically where you're working in the broadband space? 

Gareth Gibson (40:58):
Sure. So, bro, I think I keep coming back to this, but Trimble is about closing that gap between the digital blueprint and the physical world. So for decades, construction and utility sectors have been plagued by that disconnect between the plan and the reality on the ground. And Trimble is providing the technology that builds that bridge that, you know, bridges that gap. Giving ultimately our customers and our users the confidence that what they design in the office on the screen of their computer is exactly what they can build in the real world, and they can do it safely on budget and on time. So, um, that's what we are all about. That's what Trimble does. Um, that era of a disconnected team working on out of date paper plans, <laugh>, um, and relying on guesswork, uh, that era is over. And the future for, uh, infrastructure design, deployment and construction, um, is about digitally empowered construction, where every piece of data is able to flow seamlessly through a, you know, a living ecosystem of connected tools, uh, and platforms. I think of it as, you know, like the data is kind of a thread, a golden thread that needs to flow through every phase of a project, and that's what kind of ties it all together. Um, that single source of truth, um, that is going to help organizations, utility owners, uh, contractors and construction teams to remove the waste, um, and get things done safely. And that's, that's the takeaway. 

Jessica Denson (42:41):
I love it. It's fantastic. Well, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much, Gareth, for joining us today. 

Gareth Gibson (42:47):
My pleasure. It's been, it's been fun talking. It's been nice. It has. Thanks. Thanks for listening. 

Jessica Denson (42:51):
Yeah. Our guest today, again, has been Gareth Gibson, the marketing director for the utility sector of Tremble Again, and I'll include a link to the company's website as well as the geospatial industry report that we talked about and other important links in the description of this podcast. So be sure to check that out. Again, I'm Jessica Denson. Thanks for listening to Connect to Nation. If you like our show and wanna know more about us, head to connect to nation.org or look for the latest episodes on your favorite podcast platform.