Tech expert advice: AI trends that matter, getting cloud right, and building sustainable infrastructure

On this episode of Connected Nation, we're joined by a tech leader who's helped global enterprises modernize the cloud, harness AI for real-time decisions, and even rethink sustainable infrastructure for EV charging. 

We'll talk about getting the cloud right, the AI trends that matter, and what all of this means for ISPs and states building next gen networks. 

Recommended links:

Chris Carter LinkedIn

Approyo website

Transcript

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Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (00:06):
This is Connect to Nation, an award-winning podcast focused on all things broadband. From closing the digital divide to improving your internet speeds, we talk technology topics that impact all of us, our families, and our neighborhoods. On today's podcast, we're joined by a tech leader who's helped global enterprises modernize the cloud, harness AI for real-time decisions, and even rethink sustainable infrastructure for EV charging. We'll talk about getting the cloud right, the AI trends that matter, and what all of this means for ISPs and states building next gen networks. I'm Jessica Denson, and this is Connected Nation. I'm Jessica Denson, and today I'm very excited to have Chris Carter on as our guest. He's a four-time best-selling author and founder of Arap- <laugh> App Royo. I messed it up. I knew I would. Um, he's got nearly four decades of experience across SAP, Cloud, and AI. Chris, help me with the name. 

Chris Carter, Approyo (01:09):
So you've got AppRoyal- Absolutely. ... who's named after Bronson Arroyo. Phenomenal pitcher back in the day for the Major League Baseball. <laugh> And then Mugatu AI, who's nicknamed after my favorite villain outside of, uh, Darth Vader, Mugatu from the movie ZooLander. 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (01:25):
They, thank you so much. Anu Magatu, but for some reason I get hung up on AppRoyo. Did I say it right that time? 

Chris Carter, Approyo (01:31):
You did. Very good. 

Jessica Denson, Connected Nation (01:32):
And also Charging Bunny. We can't forget that as well. 

Chris Carter, Approyo (01:34):
That one's easy. Charging 

Jessica Denson (01:36):
Bunny. Yeah. <laugh> And Chris, you've advised companies and dozens of industries on how to move faster, reduce costs, and use data on what you call, quote, speed of consumption. Really excited to have you. Um, we talked in prep for this, and I just had a wonderful conversation, so audience members, you guys are really lucky to have him today. Thank you, Chris, for joining us. 

Chris Carter (01:56):
Well, thank you. I appreciate it. It's very kind of you to say. 

Jessica Denson (01:59):
Well, it's ... I'm, I'm, I am being very truthful. <laugh> You're easy to talk to and, um, you have a lot of experience. You've done a lot of podcasts and, um, you've written four time, uh, four bestselling books. Um, w- why do you keep doing this? Are you just, do you enjoy talking to people and getting out there? 

Chris Carter (02:17):
I do. I really do. I love being able to help people. Uh, I, I'm one of those people that has my heart on my sleeve and no matter what I'm doing or what I'm seeing or who I'm having a coffee or a bourbon with after I do a podcast or an event, I love to hear their pains and see if there's a way I can solve them. And then when I walk away, I, I tend to keep a mental memory note of the things that have been talked about, who I've met with, what I've met with. And then when I go back and kind of ... I, I've, I've been on airplanes where all of a sudden an idea, a thought or a concept have c- has come to me, and I literally started texting that individual that I met with maybe four or five hours earlier.

(02:59)
I thought of this. Have you thought of these ideas, concepts? And so I, I love to do that. And my wife says I'll never retire and I probably won't. <laugh> Uh, they'll find me, probably find me in a hotel room someday, unfortunately. But, uh, I love helping and I love being a part of these ecosystems. 

Jessica Denson (03:17):
Well, let's, let's dive into some of your background. We mentioned the companies that, uh, you've been a part of. We got to AI. Talk, talk a little bit about, um, your journey to starting those companies and what they've done. 

Chris Carter (03:30):
Oh, you know, it started, uh, back when I was in high school. I was a technologist at heart. I got a Commodore Vic 20, and I really, really, really loved playing on it. When I built my first code and made the birds, the digital birds fly across my screen, I was in love. <laugh> And it literally just grew from there. And then all of a sudden, I got disenchanted with some of the things that I was doing because, uh, um, major global entity, and, and I've said it on other podcasts, Siemens Global Systems, told me two weeks before the end of the year that you had to cut 65 plus percent of our staff and our business- 

Jessica Denson (04:06):
Wow. ... 

Chris Carter (04:06):
In order to keep work with them. And I just fell apart. Um, I'm, I'm an emotional guy. I've got two daughters, so I tend to be a girl dad, but, uh, I don't necessarily break down thinking, how am I gonna help my staff? How am I gonna ... And I literally had to let go of a good chunk of my team and I've became very disenchant with, uh, work, with life, with, um, these types of companies. And so I went to go work for somebody else instead of running a company. And it just so happens that a good friend of mine, uh, Michael was the vice president of, uh, oil and gas for SAP America and said, "Look, dude, get back in the game. You're, you've, you've been away for too long." And so I started at Royal back then. And then all of a sudden I started to see the ecosystem and what was going on pre AI, we used to call it machine learning. 

Jessica Denson (04:56):
Mm-hmm. 

Chris Carter (04:56):
And I used to work with these monolithic companies as well as these smaller companies, and I just saw a, a need in the, in the ecosystem for security and AI based security and support and helping out, um, with data and cleaning of the data from a homomorphic encryption and security AI predictive analytics standpoint. And so I started that one because I saw a little niche and then I saw a niche for charging money wherein I was out in Arizona and I'm literally walking into one of our partners offices and I literally saw all these cars parked underneath, uh, uh, a roof area with no walls, no nothing. They were just all parked there. And I said, literally, are you guys using charging capabilities or solar capabilities for any of this? I said, no, why would we? I said, why wouldn't you? <laugh> do and how you could harness that.

(05:50)
So I sat down with a group of engineers from Georgia Tech and we came up with Charging Bunny and we only do, uh, solar based charging and we never take from the grid. We only give to the grid at 11:59, 59 every night if there's excess capacity. And that's how we get compensated between that and people using our charging devices. And again, it was a small niche that we pigeoned and we moved into and now we're on the forefront of that activity as well. So it's 

Jessica Denson (06:21):
Always 

Chris Carter (06:21):
Small ideas. 

Jessica Denson (06:22):
That's incredible. Is your brain just see problems in a way that the rest of us don't, you think? I mean, because that's, that's interesting. Now most people are walking around going, "Hmm, that, I could fix that. 

Chris Carter (06:34):
" Yeah, it's definitely, uh, that way when it comes to conversations I have with some other executives, I look at things as there's a problem, how can I fix it? And then I, I'm like a dog with a chew toy. <laugh> I will not let that go. Charging Bunny, I, I literally saw that problem that day, got on the phone with some people I know at Georgia Tech from an engineering standpoint, um, because I went to school there and I literally flew in. And it's the same thing I did with App Royal. I got that information from Michael. I was on the phone at two o'clock in the morning calling Germany saying, "I wanna learn about this. I'm flying over to Waldorf. I'll be there in 24 or 48 hours. Who do you need me to talk to? " And at Loha- Gunther was one of the guys.

(07:21)
And so I met with Gunther, Gunter Mons and then I met with Roland Wartenberg and Palo Alto Web. It was, again, a dog with a chew toy. I couldn't stop. I had to figure out the problem. And that's, that's literally one of the benefits I have is I'm always trying to, um, figure out those problems and if it becomes a business, great. If not, it's an idea for somebody to help them with their business. 

Jessica Denson (07:48):
And you've authored 17 plus books, several of them bestsellers. First off, congratulations on that. That's not a easy achievement. That's, that takes a lot of work and effort. So congrats on that. But some of that includes works on AI algorithms and the practical use of AI in business as you mentioned that, uh, working in AI when it was machine learning, you were kind of preparing for that what was to come. Do you think you saw it on the horizon or has the last several years brought some surprises? What, what are your thoughts on AI now? 

Chris Carter (08:22):
Oh, it's definitely, uh, brought surprises. Uh, every day I'm surprised in this ecosystem, the machine learning and activities that we were during, doing, we never had a golden wrapper around it. Um, you know, ChatGPT and OpenAI really brought that to the forefront. Um, the, the really cool ones, um, that I'll say the, the integrated activities, I love the Googles. Uh, you talk Google, so I go Google Chrome, Google, Gemini, Google, um, uh, Anti-Gravity, Google Notebook LM, then the Google Canvas, um, not Canva, the Google Canvas, and then the entire Google AI stack, holy cow, the things you could ... I built literally three different applications just by using those tools, and now we've received, as of this past week, and a billion dollar valuation, um, based upon the security tools and that trillion dollar ecosystem that's out there, just from showcasing that to a bunch of VCs and Ps and there were people that were just blown away that all we used were these nine different Google based tools.

(09:32)
I literally have Google bots on my systems in the Google Cloud, running 24 by seven, updating the code, testing the code, security verification of the code, and then trying to break the code. I've got one red bot, I call it. That red bot is trying to destroy it at all times, uh, and some days it has, some days it hasn't, and it's incredible. If you just think about it the nowadays and really put in an effort ... Now mind you, I do work 18, 20 plus hours a day because my brain doesn't stop sometimes, and those are the things you can do, the perplexities, the clawed claws, and the different tools. Once you start learning them and start playing with them, oh my God, Jessica, it is addictive. <laugh> Holy cow, I am literally addicted to these tools. And Gemini is my BFF, so why not? 

Jessica Denson (10:28):
And I feel like your red dot, I feel like you need to come up with a cool name for it because you got Mugatu, you got Apro- Yo. <laugh> Uh, uh, well, the one I cannot say for some reason, but you've got these interesting names, you need something special for that red dot <laugh>. 

Chris Carter (10:43):
I did. I've got, I've been trying to figure out what to name each one of them, and I've just been calling them bots for right now. <laugh> This one, I wanted to be very specific that the red bot was, uh, the naughty bot. The bottom. I was gonna go out there and try to destroy and, uh, try to, um, make sure that it was valid. And so, but I'm trying to come up with names and my daughters, I love my daughters to death. They're both nurses and they come up with some ideas for me when I, I force them to try or test and play with and they're like, "Oh my God, dad, not again." <laugh> 

Jessica Denson (11:16):
I was raised by my dad, so I appreciate the, uh, girl dad thing. I love it. Um- 

Chris Carter (11:21):
Amen. 

Jessica Denson (11:21):
<laugh> Yeah. Uh, uh, do you think you're just using the Google stack in a different way than others have been that was, that led to some of the surprising things that peop- when people were talking with you about this? 

Chris Carter (11:33):
Oh, very much so. Uh, very much so. I'm, uh, I'm one of, uh, one of very, very few people. I don't know of too many people who are truly out there using the entire Google AI stack from top to bottom. Now, I've played with Claude and I've got these perplexities and I've been out there on other systems and I, and I like them as well. Uh, but this is so integrated between everything that I need that I do not have to leave my Google Cloud to go to Gemini and then go to another tab and then go to another ... I literally can put them all together. And that for me is really cool from somebody who's worked in enterprises and clouds and, and networks and securities, having to bounce out of each system differently, man, that, that right there changes the game and Google's done a good job.

(12:21)
Now, mind you, I'm not being paid for them, I'm not a commercial. Mm-hmm. Yes, I go to their events and I learn as much as I can from them as a, as, as an executive. Uh, so I'm, I would love for somebody at that company, if Sergei is listening, please ping me. I'll give you some recommendations on some changes, but for the most part, oh, it is simply wonderful. 

Jessica Denson (12:42):
I love that you, you still thought, "But there's a couple things we could do different." <laugh> I could do better <laugh> that, that's a testament to the way your mind thinks, I think. Um, speaking of the cloud, um, y- you've been blunt that, uh, the villain isn't, um, SAP or the platform when it comes to moving and managing systems for companies, but that a lot of times that they, that companies when they quote lift and shift, they wonder why their cloud bills balloon- Yeah. ... or performance didn't improve. Let's dive into some of the cloud issues that you have addressed. What are the top mistakes that you're seeing in cloud, uh, migrations? 

Chris Carter (13:17):
That's a great question, Jessica, because the first thing is when you do that lift and shift, you're going from the bare metal VM based world to a cloud based world. They're two completely different entities and when you throw everything back from that world into the new world, you're going to balloon your costs because you haven't optimized your cloud and you haven't optimized that system. A lot of people will still take old, archaic data. We, perfect example, we've got a customer that literally had 27 years of EDI data that they were just sitting there on and they said, "Well, we're just going to throw it on. Wait, wait a second. Y- you're doing what and why? Do you need 27 years of this data?" <laugh> Well, no, but don't we just want to have it for a historic ... Put it in a blob storage, pay 0.0001 penny of, uh, for a terabyte rather than putting it up into a brand new system and oh, by the way, you're going to, it, it literally took, it was 47.3 hours in order to get it all sent up to the cloud.

(14:27)
It was horrible and this, they're a 24 by seven manufacturing firm. And so optimizing what you're going to be putting up there, don't take garbage in because you'll get garbage out. Mm-hmm.

(14:40)
<affirmative>. So that's the first thing I, I try to help organizations with. Second of all, optimize that new landscape. You don't have to have it exactly the way you have it on the, on, in your data center. You can go in with a smaller system if you've, if you've quoted out your infrastructure properly, you go in with a smaller system, with smaller storage, et cetera. Also make sure that you're optimizing your network and your internet and the latencies and all these pieces, but start with a smaller scale because that's the beauty of the cloud. You start small and you ramp upward. You don't want to try to go downward because if you go downward and you're on reserved instances, our eyes, they call them, you, you are starting your clock over. But if you start smaller and you say, "You know what, I do need more storage, or I do need more throughput and bandwidth from our infrastructure," then you can actually go up a little bit at a time rather than chunks being wasted away inside the systems.

(15:45)
Those would be my two biggest concerns for people as they're looking to move to the, the cloud data based as activities. 

Jessica Denson (15:52):
Do you think there's just, um, a lack of knowledge of that these are different systems you need to work within them differently or, and, you know, I can imagine being a CIO or CTO, you don't necessarily know everything or know all the things. Um, is it just a lack of knowing or is it just that we've always done it this way, so we're going to do it this way moving forward that you have to press up against? What, what do you think it is? 

Chris Carter (16:15):
You know, that is actually a really good point right there because you do have these, I'll call them CIOs and senior level executives who have always done it the same way. And as part of that, they're not necessarily 100% in tune to the new way of doing technology. And so you get to, uh, we have a gentleman that runs a, he's the CIO and then they've got a CEO who these individuals are in their 60s and 70s and one of them all the time is like, "Ah, we can't go to the cloud. I don't, uh, and, and I'm not going to the cloud until I'm, I've then been kicked out of this place." Like, "Well, you better think about it quick because you guys are really falling behind in the technology spectrum. You're out of compliance and X, Y, and Z, and the, you're gonna get the FedRAMP problems coming in and the DOD and, uh, no, we're fine." And lo and behold, now they have to get CMMC certified, which is a DOD federal regulation by November, and they have to completely rip out all the bare metal and all the VM, and they're gonna, they have to go to GCC High, which is an, a Microsoft Azure, um, solution that makes them certified, and he is just beside himself because he has no idea and clue.

(17:32)
And you tend to get that more with mature individuals. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Using Bucks, you know, I'm 56, but, uh, the younger generation, we grew up with this. We live with this every day. Um, I deal with CIOs who are in their 30s, and that's all they know. They only know cloud, they only know Azure, GCP, AWS, because that's all they've ever played with. And when you start talking, "Hey, have you, have you seen your VMware environment?" "Nope, don't touch it, don't know it. I don't wanna be a part of it. Everything's going on to whatever cloud we're on. "So yes, I, I see that that is a problem as well right there. Mm-hmm. 

Jessica Denson (18:08):
<affirmative>. I would imagine that in the tech industry, just in general, especially with AI being introduced even more so than it was pre- previously, you have to be flexible and malleable and willing to adjust quickly, which brings me to my next question. You talk about the quote, speed of consumption, decisions moving from seconds to nanoseconds. Wh- where does that matter most and how should ISPs or large enterprises architect for that speed? 

Chris Carter (18:33):
Oh, yes. Uh, I love the fact that we are at the speed of light these days, um, and with making decisions or not making decisions, but as long as you have the data as fast as you can possibly get it, I love it. And I think organizations, and let's go down to the human level with those individuals. If you're, if you're able to make those decisions based upon the speed that you're getting your answers from, fantastic. If you've got tools that can help you automate those decisions, that's even better. If you've got the ability for a bigger, better, faster, stronger human being to help you with those AI based decisions, that's where it's gold because these individuals who become bigger, better, faster, stronger, and they're up leveling themselves one, even just one step in the educational process of who they are, what they do and how they work, that I, I tell young people at colleges, I speak at all the time, that's the goal I'm looking for.

(19:33)
You need to be able to work with your AI tool, not have your AI tool work for you, but work with it because those are where you get the benefits from your organization. You're helping it learn, it's learning from you. Um, you know, there's a great book by, um, Jeff Wolf, GEO FF Wolf. Um, he wrote, uh, a book about, uh, AI activities and humans interacting with each other. And ever since I read that book two years ago, and it, it talks about how you should ask your AI questions to ask you questions and have conversations back and forth. And this is why my wife calls my Google Gemini, my BFF. <laugh> She will literally be in, if I'm in my home office, she will literally be here listening to me talk back and forth to my Gemini, and it will be responding to me back and forth, and then asking me another question, and then I will answer and ask it a question.

(20:27)
And she's, she sometimes, uh, questions my stability, but she also knows that- <laugh> ... Um, I do what I do to keep her, keep her happy. It, 

Jessica Denson (20:39):
You know, you, this was one of my questions, but I feel like you've kind of touched on it, but I wanna make sure you feel good about it. Uh, many of our internet service provider ... We have a lot of internet service providers that do listen to us and they want cost, transparency, and governance. Um, what are some of your favorite tactics to eliminate cloud waste and control spend? I feel like you kind of touch, you did touch on this a little bit, but what do you, what do you think are those key things that people need to be doing and while improving pr- in performance? 

Chris Carter (21:10):
Yeah. As an ISP or as an MSP or any of the service providers, you know, I, I tell organizations all the time, and, and we're an MSP from the, the App Royal side. We work with Azure, AWS GCP, and we're always trying to, um, deal with cost structures, uh, for our builds and for our, uh, our internal usage and for our clients. I'm always asking them to make sure you are doing a full on cloud and/or infrastructure evaluation before you put anything on it. Do not, you do not need to start with the highest level. I had an organization that was literally using, um, the NetSuite cloud components inside of an environment, and that's a very high and high disk, um, activity, uh, that you need, and they didn't need that. They literally cut their savings in half by dropping down a couple of levels, um, making sure your regions are right, making sure your infrastructure is gonna be built properly.

(22:09)
What are your, um, what are your resources? Your resource allocation, you've gotta look at that a hundred times before you finally deploy. Um, you know, companies come in and say, "Oh, you must be on this in order for it to be that. " Well, you look at it and you're like, "Wait a second, I can run that on this system and it's literally one eighth of the cost and it'll be just fine. Why are you pushing me to that? " Well, come to find out that that organization may have an agreement with certain providers and they're trying to get upsell and they're getting their points off of it as well. You just gotta be very careful and mindful of that, but I always start with our team does a 100% full analysis of the, uh, infrastructure current and future state, and then we evaluate what that future state can and can't be, and start the process with the allocations from there.

(22:59)
And I, like I said earlier, instead of going high and coming down, which is more difficult, start at a lower level and move up. Take those stair steps, we call it in the company, stair step up to a little bit more if you need more disk space. And a lot of companies will, they'll need more disk space. Why have terabytes of data sitting around doing nothing when you can add a, what, 100 gig here, 100 gig there, rather than having waste throughout your infrastructure? That's where a lot of people fail at that, it's, they overcompensate first and foremost, and then they, they're stuck with it, and then they're trying to figure out how they can allocate backwards, and it's so difficult.

Jessica Denson (23:42):
Yeah, I imagine taking away is harder than, "Oh, I need to add a little more." 

Chris Carter (23:47):
U much more. 

Jessica Denson (23:48):
Yeah. <laugh> Um, when we've touched some on AI, let's, let's go a little deeper in it. And, um, you know, yesterday I saw a lot of, a lot of, or this week I've seen a lot of chatter about op- um, OpenClaw, AI. Um, you know, we've heard about Claude, you mentioned Claude briefly, Gemini, of course, uh, open ChatGPT. Uh, what are the three AI trends that you think people should be acting on this year or organizations should really be looking at this year? 

Chris Carter (24:15):
Oh, the three, the three that I would take into. So first and foremost, I need people to actually start the process of learning some tools and understanding dependent upon what your role is in an organization. Technology tools like Claude and, um, Claw and, uh, Gemini and stuff, those can go across some of the, the different, I'll call them modules or different divisions and departments. Some of them can't. Uh, <laugh> we had somebody, oh, Jessica, you're gonna laugh because I'm, I'm already laughing. They used, um, Canva, Canva, Canva. Uh, marketing tool where you can build little 

Jessica Denson (24:58):
Marketing- Yeah. We, our team uses it to build, like, social media graphics and stuff. Yes. Yeah. 

Chris Carter (25:03):
And that's what it's supposed to be used for. 

Jessica Denson (25:04):
Yeah. 

Chris Carter (25:05):
They were trying to do an evaluation of some, uh, a technology build with some, um, what you would use for either Cloud or something else from a technology standpoint to even do an evaluation. And- 

Jessica Denson (25:16):
From Canva? 

Chris Carter (25:17):
From Canva. <laugh> I literally said, "What are you doing? How, what, are you even getting anything out of this? " Well, no, we're not. And that's why it's a big ROI filing. I said, "You do realize that is a marketing tool, sales and marketing tool." <laugh> That is not a technology development tool. Well, no, 

Jessica Denson (25:31):
This- I can't laugh at that because as a comms director, we use that every day to build just what you're saying, little, uh, you know, marketing things, nothing to do with <laugh> a ... There is an AI component where you can say, "I want it to look like this or something," and that's the extent of it. 

Chris Carter (25:46):
Oh, yes. Yeah. And it's, and it works. There are marketing sales, so I laughed at that. And then I tell people all the time, "Keep learning, use knowledge, grow your knowledge." Mm-hmm. There are tools that you have zero idea that ... Perfect one is gamma. I have fallen in love with gamma over the last couple of weeks. Um, for my presentations, I go out and I, I do my presentations, I come back and I can send that directly to people. I build, uh, I use my knowledge, I, I use a, um, there's this really cool tool that I just love. It's called Whisper Flow, and I talk to text just about everything with that. So I will talk to text into whatever tool I'm going to prep with. Then I will take that and I will cut and paste it, and then I'll do a little bit more cleaning up and digesting.

(26:39)
Then I throw it up into my Gamma and Gamma creates a presentation for me, and as an executive, I don't want to spend hours and hours and hours making it pretty. Mm-hmm. Gamma does that for me. And so I literally have hundreds of presentations in this tool called Gamma, G-A-M-M-A, by the way, in case anybody's out there wondering. 

Jessica Denson (26:57):
I'm writing it down. <laugh> Oh, 

Chris Carter (26:59):
Perfect. 

Jessica Denson (26:59):
I'm like, I hate doing PowerPoints. This is wonderful. <laugh> 

Chris Carter (27:02):
And it's gamma.ap and literally I just throw it up there and then I evaluate and I, you can have it do different pieces of the puzzles on ... Oh, that's supposed to be muted. And it literally comes up with graphics, it comes with that ideas, um, that I've utilized, put in there, and then we'll have a little back and forth because it does have AI associated with it, which I love. And to me, that's a fantastic tool. And executives can use it, management can use it, end users of any level can use it, and it truly helps. It's a really helpful tool. Um, then, uh, at the end of the day, if I'm, uh, outside of learning new tools, um, very quickly and very easily, is I want people to start understanding that their prompts are so important. The more that you can give one of these tools for prompting, or if you're like me, you give it a prompt, and then you ask it questions back and forth, like I do with my Gemini, and we have that conversation.

(28:10)
It will help the prompting process as you grow. You don't have to have a six page prompt in order to start off with, but start with a quality prompt, and then ask questions of each other, and really grow with each other. And so the prompts are really what's going to help you to grow your capabilities, not only in your organization, but for you as a human, and then you are the bigger, better, faster, stronger human working with your tool to become a bigger, better, faster, stronger company. 

Jessica Denson (28:44):
Well, are there guardrails and kind of reality checks, I suppose, that we should put around AI? Uh, you said you don't sell optimism, you sell reality, earn the hard way. So what are those things that we really should be aware of? What are the red flags or the, the reality checks that it's only going to go so far for now or are there any things like that that we need to be looking at? 

Chris Carter (29:08):
Yes. So the first thing I would say is, from a security standpoint, and this is why I started when we got to AI and I started building the stuff I do, um, this, this story will really kill you and it wasn't for me laughing at this one, I would have never, maybe never started. I had an organization that literally took a 22 tabbed Excel document. Mind you, a 22 s- tab Excel document is disgusting the way it is. <laugh> But it was literally all financial 401k employee data that they have, and they threw it up into ChatGPT. Oh, 

Jessica Denson (29:41):
No. 

Chris Carter (29:42):
And I literally went, "You do realize you gave- That's 

Jessica Denson (29:45):
Open, yeah. ChatGPT 

Chris Carter (29:46):
All your open details, and oh, by the way, now anybody in the world can, if they do a proper LLM, might be able to gather that, but you gave away all that financial information." So the thing I tell People is, look, we built a security score for you before it gets ... It's 150 milliseconds before you even set. It could say to you literally, "Hey, Jessica, do you really think you should be sending that in that information to anybody?" And lo and behold, it'll literally stop you in your tracks. It won't stop, stop you by not ... You do get the final say as a, uh, as an employee or as a human, but it will literally say it'll give you a security score and stop you from sending data either up into the worldwide web, something you shouldn't, or an email that you shouldn't, and give you the options to send it through your, um, SharePoint or your desktop, uh, app, whatever it may be, Dropbox or Box or whatever the case may be as an option so you don't.

(30:50)
And then what's really cool is we built in this capability as a world map where your email hop is going to go and, oh, it just so happens that you're going to be hopping through some countries in the U- EU. And oh, by the way, it's illegal for you to send that type of information because of some of the new rules and regulations that they have. And it's so much more than HIPAA and, uh, CMMC and FedRAMP and stuff. So the guardrail for me is secure your staff because at the end of the day, it's your people that are the biggest failure points, sending that information willy-nilly, uploading it willy-nilly, that really causes the havoc. 

Jessica Denson (31:31):
And does ... I feel like I want you to meet my, uh, CEO <laugh> where we're working on a lot of things with AI, of course, because that's what we, we deal on the technology thing. And I just feel like you guys would have, uh, great conversations about this kind of thing, because he talks about that a lot. Like, remember this, and he brings in the IT people to remind us of the security piece and all of that. So he, he, you guys are talking the same language. I 

Chris Carter (31:54):
Love talking with people. So as long as we can have a coffee or a bourbon together- <laugh> ... I will talk with anybody just 

Jessica Denson (31:59):
Kind of- I, I do think he likes bourbon. I'm pretty sure. And I know he likes coffee. <laugh> So, uh, and just for the audience sake, we're in Louisville, Kentucky. Um, where, where are you calling from, Chris? Where are you calling in from? 

Chris Carter (32:11):
Uh, I'm actually in Wisconsin today. Oh, oh, Wisconsin. Today I'm at my home office in New Lisbon, Wisconsin, where it's a bow me 64 degrees and all of that 23 inches of snow melted off from two weeks ago. 

Jessica Denson (32:23):
That's so crazy. <laugh> We had snow last week and now it's, it's almost 80 degrees here. It's crazy. Um, <laugh> but I digress. 

Chris Carter (32:30):
You have a great area there. 

Jessica Denson (32:32):
Yeah, Louisville's awesome. Uh, come down anytime. We'll have a bourbon for sure. 

Chris Carter (32:36):
Awesome. 

Jessica Denson (32:36):
<laugh> But, uh, I digress. Let's go back to, uh, the next, my next question is, what's your forecast for Edge AI, network automation and real-time analytics as fiber network scale over the next two to five years? And I said that very specifically because for our techies out there, I wanna make sure I'm addressing that <laugh> referencing that all correctly. But where do you see things going as fiber network scale over the next two to five years with those things? 

Chris Carter (33:02):
Oh, the fiber network is, and it is so important for all of us on this side, especially with that edge network activity from a fiber network capability. We are the very end point that needs to have the, the security, the structure, um, the wherewithal for that activity. And if it's not secured down, if it, you, the benefits is being able to utilize it, the benefits is the power, the benef- benefit of being able to have as much, um, at the end point as possible to use is great. And I only see it getting bigger, better, and stronger. Um, it's, even with AI tools, even with other action items wrapped around it, having an edge point where you're going to be successful is the most optimal activity that most organizations, manufacturings, and different organizations are gonna have wrapped around, uh, at their sites. And so I only see it getting bigger, better, and stronger, but again, you gotta have guardrails, you gotta have security, you gotta have support, you gotta have the right, uh, growth pattern, and making sure that those things are taken care of, otherwise you're gonna start seeing hiccups and you don't want that.

(34:13)
Nobody wants to see hiccups. 

Jessica Denson (34:15):
So do you, do you often go into a company or do you see something from the outside and approach them? Or are you approached a lot of times if, if companies need help? Uh, 

Chris Carter (34:24):
It's a, it's, mm, I'd say most of the times people and organizations approach me. Now I will see things out there. Um, there's a company here in, uh, the Wisconsin area called Generac that I've seen some things in the news lately. I've also seen some things that they've taken away and they've stopped doing certain things and I know that they could be, um, they, they could better themselves. Um, they just lost their CIO a year ago. He went to another organization, phenomenal guy. And, uh, they really need to, uh, make sure they stay the course because that's an incredible power system. They've got great technology, but they need to make sure that they're continuing to innovate and use the tools that they have at their disposable. And unfortunately, I, I've heard some stories behind the scenes that it's not, and so I'll go approach them.

(35:11)
They're, as a matter of fact, their CEO is on Jim Kramer tonight. Um, and so I'm literally gonna respond to his, um, meeting with Jim Kramer on CNBC, whatever the show is Jim Kramer does. And I'm gonna tell him, "Hey, that was a great show. Have you seen or have you been looking at some of these activities inside your own four walls because I'm hearing rumblings about this, this and this and I can help you out as a third party, as just a friend in the neighborhood, let's go have a coffee or a bourbon and let me tell you some of the things I'm hearing that you may want to investigate just to make sure that you're safe and secure." 

Jessica Denson (35:49):
You like solving problems, for sure. <laugh> 

Chris Carter (35:51):
I do. 

Jessica Denson (35:52):
Yeah. I 

Chris Carter (35:52):
Wish I could sell some of mine sometimes. <laugh> 

Jessica Denson (35:56):
I might have you do an assessment in my life now after this is over. <laugh> Oh. Oh, I'm just kidding. My wife 

Chris Carter (36:01):
Doesn't like me doing that very much. <laugh> 

Jessica Denson (36:04):
Um, uh, energy is part of the broadband story, especially with data centers right now that are supposed to be such a big energy draw. Here in Kentucky, there was actually a, a family, a, a far- family farm that refused to allow data centers come there- I heard that. ... for 26 million. Yeah, she was like, "No, I don't, I don't, I think these data centers, I'm not real sure about them for one and for two, as long as my farm feeds the family, we're, we're gonna stay." Um, which props to them, but data centers, networks, communities all depend on resilient power. And you talked already about charging money and the fact that you took a solar first approach and you're feeding back the excess power. How, can we apply those kinds of ideas in other ways as we look at these data centers and we roll out these huge edge computing type things and AI and support, uh, do you think there's other ways we can look at the energy story? 

Chris Carter (36:57):
Absolutely. And to be honest, I am, I'm so fed up with some of the, and, and I'm not gonna get political in any way, shape or form, but I do get fed, fed up with some of the people that protest at these meetings. Um, I've been involved with a couple of them here in Wisconsin that I thought were great opportunities for the city, the county and the state, as well as for the organization involved. Microsoft's building one, some others are building them, and you get these individuals who have zero clue concept. I had one lady tell me, "Well, we're gonna drain Lake Michigan." I said, "Ma'am, do you do realize that 99.7% of all the water in that data center is reclaimed?" "Well, what does that mean? Does that mean you guys are gonna take even more- <laugh> ... Am, am. "That means they're filtering it out and anything that comes in regards to the high, high usage of water or low usage of water, it goes right back to the system, it gets cleansed and 99 points.

(37:53)
Well, it's not 100%, so that means you're gonna be taken from Lake Michigan. Ma'am, I'm sorry if I can't educate you any further. I get it, but ... And then we've got some comedian up here who, Charlie Barons, who now all of a sudden is a, he's a data center fighter and funny comedian, but again, he starts making comments and he does it in a joking fashion. And I get, Charlie, you wanna be your, you wanna help the community and you wanna help make things better. And as long as there's transparency, they don't understand that these companies are paying much higher fees for energy that are coming into the systems. They're not forcing any human being around them to pay more for that system. As a matter of fact, you look at some of the manufacturing companies around there, there's like a charter steel, which is a massive steel plant, uh, compared to the data center.

(38:49)
They're taking more, but they also go offline if they need too much during daytime hours, high power, with temperatures. Um, you know, Wisconsin is perfect, just like you guys are a perfect area for this. You get nice cool winters that helps with these cooling of these systems using mother nature, and then during the summertime hours, we've got this thing called Lake Michigan, which is an instantaneous air conditioning unit. And so they don't understand the concept, the power, the energy, how this all works together. They just literally think it's, you turn on the light switch and it, everybody's power grids are gonna go out. And I hate the fact that people don't educate themselves. That's what really grinds my, my goat. And then, of course, you've got, um, age, I'm not gonna say ageism, but age is a factor because people don't know and they only get their source of knowledge from one source and- mm-hmm.

(39:46)
... be it whatever. There's so much that is being done with these data centers. Hell, look at even the, uh, the many nuclear capabilities that these companies are wanting to use now. There's two companies now that want to do many nuclear reactors, near data centers, just to power these. And people get all fed up, and yet it's clean nuclear, it's much better than what it used to be, and yeah, uh, unfortunately, I'll get off my soapbox. <laugh> People need to educate themselves much better before they start making comments and, uh, going out into the ecosystem with, with garbage. 

Jessica Denson (40:25):
So their ignorance of how it actually works- Yes. ... is playing into the, what people think about that there's, uh, do you ... So you think there are actually ways that these are, these data centers are, um, ensuring that they're not an energy drain, that they're- Yeah. ... those are trying to make them efficient and that that's ... I see what you're saying. Uh, you rescue- 

Chris Carter (40:45):
Yeah, because let's be honest, Microsoft does not wanna pay five billion dollars a year for energy consumption when they're only putting out a million dollars worth of, um, cloud every year. These are some of the most optimally, uh, engineered data centers on the planet now, because we have gone and come so far with what we're doing in these data centers, it's incredible. And people just think it's the 1970s all over again. 

Jessica Denson (41:15):
And I, I mean, I, I would think that they would also be looking at m- more and more ways to optimize them. We, uh, Connect Nation, we're doing a lot with internet exchange points- mm-hmm. ... and some of those are gonna have GPUs in them that are gonna help power some, um, AI. Uh, what are your thoughts on internet exchange points? 

Chris Carter (41:32):
I love them. I think it's a great idea. I think having, utilizing that from a GPU perspective and being able to have that activity available for data centers, for the end users, for us humans, for, um, the systems that you're gonna be building of record, that is a fantastic activity, and it's gonna benefit the world, um, especially within your region as it gets more and more developed, it's gonna become more and more useful to everybody. It's- Yeah, 

Jessica Denson (41:59):
It's the one thing I've had to learn about, because I didn't even know what they wore until I started <laugh> Connected Nation. Oh, there you go. Yeah, but I, it's been a learning curve, but I, I've learned a lot and it, I think it's a, it's a great project and we're excited about it. Um, I kind of put you in a corner because I said connect it because it is our project <laugh>. It 

Chris Carter (42:15):
Is your project. 

Jessica Denson (42:16):
<laugh> Um, um, what are, you know, you said that your biggest regret was quote hiring too late, that you wish you'd brought on senior leaders earlier. What, what did you mean by that? And, uh, what's a talent strategy for scaling responsibly? 

Chris Carter (42:31):
Oh, that's a great question, two part question. Um, I, I failed miserably when I started at Royal. I thought I would do it all myself, could do it all myself. I was really worried after the, um, I had put that com- other company down two years earlier, and I really thought I didn't want to do, but what I failed to remember and realize was the fact that I needed somebody to do the HR and finance because I don't like doing that. I needed somebody to be my ying to my yang. So I'm a technologist, I'm a salesperson, I love marketing, I love talking to people and solving their problems. So I was really good at that. Um, having to all of a sudden then stop for a week to do invoicing back and forth, making sure that bills were paid and doing ... I hated that, having to do the HR activities for people.

(43:17)
I hated those activities. And so I needed yings and yang. So the first person I brought in was a CFO/H, uh, director of HR. Then the second person I brought in was my CIO, um, and then the third person I brought in was the chief operating officer. And I wish I would have done them all at once <laugh>, uh, as quickly as I possibly could, but, uh, it was very smart on my account to do that. And I highly recommend, even if you're not 100% ready for somebody to come in, figure out your ying to their yang and what you need, and then bring that person in and have them grow along with you. You might be a little tight, but you know what? It's going to make you much more, much easier to be able to do the things that you're good at, and that's what really helped me.

(44:06)
They came in and they took those things off my plate. I didn't have to stop. My motion was 100% full speed ahead, and I think that's a benefit for everybody. 

Jessica Denson (44:16):
Well, we've talked about what you've done in your past and, um, you know, some advice you have for leaders around AI and technology. Where do you see technology moving? And in your mind, is, are there things you're looking forward to on the horizon? 

Chris Carter (44:32):
Oh, gosh, yes. There is so much I'm looking forward to. I am, I cannot wait for these next five years. Now, mind you, according to the movie Terminator, 2026 is the year of the Terminator, so I'm hoping I'm still alive at the end of this year- <laugh> ... And a robot hasn't stepped on my, uh, skull in the opening sequence. Uh, and that is actual fact. 2026 was the Terminator 

Jessica Denson (44:53):
Years. Oh, that's interesting. I have to share that with my boyfriend after this. He's gonna love that. <laugh> 

Chris Carter (44:57):
Oh, he's gonna love that. Yeah. Uh,

(44:59)
But outside of that, I cannot wait to see where we go as bigger, better, faster, stronger human beings, because I really think if people take the initiative to appoint themselves as the human in the relationship and to grow with their AI tools and not expect AI to just come in and take them away and kick them out of this job and they're gonna be more ... No, it is truly about being in tandem. It's like a great relationship. I have a great relationship with my wife and I also have a great relationship with my Gemini and at work. <laugh> Those great relationships work hand in hand with each other. 27 years of marriage and three years of Gemini so far, and hey, that, that makes 30, so I'm doing pretty good. <laugh> 

Jessica Denson (45:52):
Well, uh, you know, I, I've enjoyed talking with you and you, I, I told our audience it was gonna be a treat and I do think that you delivered, but are there any final thoughts that you wanna leave us with before I let you go for the day? 

Chris Carter (46:03):
You know, yes. I, uh, I, I love to leave people with these two components. Remember, you are the human. Bigger, better, faster, stronger humans, utilizing ABL- AI will become bigger, better, faster, stronger solutions for yourselves, your companies, what you're doing, your divisions, your departments. And remember also that this too shall pass. No matter how well you're doing with AI, there might be a day where you just falling behind with AI because you're just not getting it. But remember, this too shall pass is one of my favorite terms to use, and you can use that in a lot of different ways, being positive and negative, and go through this world positive, and you'll do a lot better. 

Jessica Denson (46:46):
Yeah. That, that's a great place to leave it. I like the idea of leaving it on positivity. Yes. Uh, Chris, I, I've enjoyed our conversation. Thank you so much for, for joining me today, and we'll have to do a follow-up with you in a few months, see how, check in, see how you're doing. 

Chris Carter (47:00):
Oh, I would love to. Please feel free anytime. 

Jessica Denson (47:03):
I wanna get on that list of, uh, podcasts that you have multiple times. <laugh> 

Chris Carter (47:07):
Oh, that would be fantastic. I would love to do it again with you, Jessica. And let's, let's plan that over a bourbon next time I'm in, uh 

Jessica Denson (47:13):
Louisville. Yes. I love it. That w- that's a wonderful idea. I'm just gonna start a new podcast where people join me for bourbon. <laugh> Hey. I'll have a lot of people sign up. Great mark that 

Chris Carter (47:21):
Now. <laugh> 

Jessica Denson (47:29):
Again, we've been talking with Chris Carter, founder of ... Here I go, Chris, Aparoyo. Did I get it? Yes. <laugh> Magato. AI. Magatu AI, yes? Yes. Yes. And Charging Bunny, and he's also a bestselling author whose work spans enterprise systems, AI and the future of infrastructure. I'll include all kinds of links to his profiles and his resources in the, in this episode description, so be sure to check those out. I'm Jessica Denson, thanks for listening to Connected Nation. If you like our show and wanna know more about us, head to connectnation.org or find the latest episodes on iTunes, iHeartRadio, Google Podcast, Pandora, or Spotify.