Can America solve the broadband affordability problem?

How do we solve America’s broadband affordability gap while also protecting critical infrastructure?

During the Connected America Conference in Dallas, host Jessica Denson sat down with Neo Network Development's Founder and CEO Vince Aragona to discuss innovative approaches to broadband deployment, public-private partnerships, and the company’s vision for a nationwide fiber infrastructure network.

Recommended links:

Neo Network Development's website

Vince Aragona's LinkedIn

Fiber Instructure Network Map - https://nndi.us/innovative-solutions/fiber-solutions

National Broadband Master Plan - https://nndi.us/innovative-solutions/nbmp 

Transcript

Jessica Denson (00:09):

On this episode of Connected Nation, I talk to the CEO of Neo Networks, a nonprofit that works with the public sector to create affordable networks within city municipalities. Plus, find out about their mission to create a new approach to protecting America's digital infrastructure. I'm Jessica Denson and this is Connected Nation.

I'm at Connected America taking place in Dallas and I am with Vince Aragona. Did I say it right? That's right. All right. He is the president and CEO of NEO Networks. Thank you so much for joining me, Vince.

Vince Aragona (00:45):

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Jessica Denson (00:47):

Yeah. I was talking to your PR person, Stephen, <laugh> earlier and he was, he was, uh, regelling me with all the wonderful things that NeoNetworks is doing. All right. So I'm really excited to talk to you. First off, let's set the, set the stage for our audience. What does Neo Networks do? Um, I know some of it's probably in the name, but talk about what you guys do.

Vince Aragona (01:05):

Well, we really develop infrastructure for wireless and broadband delivery. Uh-huh. So, um, we initially started in 2013 with the goal of working with public sector agencies to catalog, market, and lease their, uh, existing infrastructure of publicly owned buildings. Um, everything from water tanks and streetlights and traffic unipoles. And at the time 5G was the next big thing and we just didn't see that a lot of public sector agencies were, uh, knowledgeable about how to bring their inventory into the marketplace and how to set rates that would attract technology into their community.

So we developed a program, um, proprietary rate standard, policy documents, things that were adoptable for, uh, municipality to be able to, to bring their inventory into the marketplace and attract technology into the community. And that, that was everything from, again, 4G, 5G small cells to affordable internet solutions for low income families.

(01:58):

And, and so that's really where we, uh, um, started. You know, from there it's, it's evolved and it's gone on. Uh, we've done some really interesting pilot programs in a number of different cities. Um, we've got several different public sector agencies, uh, under public private partnership agreements and, uh, and now we're really looking to scale that program up on a national level as technology is still a thing.

Jessica Denson (02:20):

Uh-huh, yeah. And dealing with the public sector, that's kind of a unique area, right?

Vince Aragona (02:25):

It is, yeah.

Jessica Denson (02:26):

Is it, is it different in every state that you go to?

Vince Aragona (02:29):

It is. Because, because in telecom people that live it like we've done for four decades, it's an unimaginably complicated regulatory legislative environment. Mm-hmm. And which is one of the reasons why I think most cities wouldn't want to try to tackle this on their own. Uh-huh. Um, you know, there's still 16 states that restrict or prohibit local municipalities from building out their own broadband networks.

Um, there are certain constraints, uh, different types of state governments, um, home rule states, general law states. There's, there's just a, a laundry list of different people that, uh, have inserted themselves into the process that have just made it really complicated and challenging. So, um, I'm not a lawyer, you know- Yeah. <laugh> ... But I play one in real life all the time. <laugh> Much to the chagrin of my own lawyer. Uh, but at the end of the day, no, we, we, we've really, you know, found a great way to work through, um, so that our program is, uh, compliant with state law.

(03:22):

Every state, um, it complies with federal FCC orders, CFR 47, the Telecom Act of 1996 and it just creates a very elegant, cost-free, risk-free way for public sector agencies to bring their inventory and to, to be able to generate non-tax revenue from it, which is oftentimes a foreign concept.

Jessica Denson (03:39):

So, um, I, I imagine several decades, you said it's been around, right? Four decades?

Vince Aragona (03:44):

We've been around for about 14 years. Oh, 14 years I'm sorr.

Jessica Denson (03:48):

Everybody

Vince Aragona (03:48):

On my team are all 30, 40 years industry veterans.

Jessica Denson (03:51):

Oh, decades of- Decades, yeah. Experience and knowledge within that. Right. I can imagine along the way that some of that, that learning is so valuable. Things that you would never think would happen happened, right?

Vince Aragona (04:01):

Yeah. So we always, you know, tongue in cheek, we always say, you know, we've stepped on every landmine out there, you know, so now we know how to avoid them. Yeah. Um, so- Cause you don't

Jessica Denson (04:09):

Want to feel that pain again, right?

Vince Aragona (04:10):

Yeah. Because, because we've also been building fiber optic networks, we're a regulated telecom utility, we're a CLEX, so we can design, build, own, and operate fiber in, over, under and through the public and utility rights of way.

And so yeah, so we've really positioned ourselves to be able to execute, um, in basically any environment. Um, and, you know, again, zoning, planning and permitting for fiber is also a big challenge and most cities have policies and processes to accommodate that, but not all of them execute on that very well.

Jessica Denson (04:38):

Uh-huh

Vince Aragona (04:39):

<affirmative>. So it's really about improving the way cities operate, uh, and again, developing their inventory and their infrastructure base to be an attractant to all this advanced emerging technologies that are available, um, that most cities just wouldn't really know how to deploy and scale if, uh, um, if they really had a desire to do that.

Jessica Denson (04:57):

And your footprint is nationwide.

Vince Aragona (04:59):

Is that- So we, we, uh, we, we, we have the ability to operate nationwide for our public sector program for infrastructure, uh, management. Um, as a CLEC, we operate in eight states. Oh. Um, we now are expanding that to 22 states because we started to partner with some fiber optic companies to take advantage of their assets as well.

Um, but our whole world revolves around poles, power, permits and fiber and building technology over the top and for the fiber that is accessible, you know, we've now cracked the code on how to make it very affordable to deploy all types of technology in scale by using existing fiber optic assets that are already in place.

Jessica Denson (05:35):

Uh-huh <affirmative>. And are you mostly in urban areas or do you also tackle the rules connectivity

Vince Aragona (05:41):

Side? Uh, we're actually going after both. Um, you know, during the pandemic we had an opportunity again, um, we started off, uh, with the Michigan City area schools, uh, in Northern Indiana, and they contacted us before the pandemic, before it was even a thing. And their problem was, u, they had about half their student population either didn't have access to broadband or, or their family couldn't afford it.

Jessica Denson (06:03):

Uh-huh

Vince Aragona (06:04):

<affirmative>. And so they invited us in by accident, you know, kind of an interesting story. We were on our way back from Detroit to Chicago. They called up, uh, my VP of Biz Dev and said, "Hey, um, the guy we really wanted to present at the Indiana Broadband Association, you know, bailed on us at the last second, is there any chance you can fill in?"

He said, "Sure, when?" And they said, right, you know, how about now? <laugh> So we just literally happened to be going right through LaPorte County at that exact point in time and we whipped in and, um, did 90 minutes on my feet and explained to them, look, if you've got school rooftops, you've got fiber that you already built, um, that connects all your schools, the technology- And

Jessica Denson (06:39):

Talk about timing.

Vince Aragona (06:40):

It was per- I mean, yeah. Yeah. And we didn't know. I mean, that was, that was the interesting thing. We did not know the pandemic was coming. Yeah. You know, they just happened to have a situation where they were starting to move towards a, an online curriculum and they just really had a, a lot of kids that were on the free lunch program and, you know, their family's affordability was the biggest issue.

So we, um, basically outlined that day a plan to just leverage the rooftops, uh, to put some very, very cost effective, commercially available equipment on the roof, uh- Uh-huh <affirmative>. CBR, uh, CBRS, um, this technology, once we implemented it and tied it back into their network would allow us to put wifi on school buses and serve the kids in their home, which was the, the most interesting piece. Yeah. So we did a, uh, we, we helped them get a p- a grant.

(07:23):

We built three schools. We covered a total of, uh, 1500 homes and we lit up 150 kids, um, homes- mm-hmm. ... in record time and had them, you know, getting 50 megabits down, five megabits up and kids that would never have been able to participate in distance learning programs were now able to do it from the comfort of their own home tying into the school's existing network and that was mostly a rural issue. A lot of these kids were in a rural area so, um, then the pandemic came and that's really when-

Jessica Denson (07:53):

Talk about, yeah, a need there.

Vince Aragona (07:55):

Yeah. Uh,

Jessica Denson (07:55):

And we talked about the homework gap, everybody was talking about that beforehand and so you had that and then suddenly here's this everyone gap. <laugh>

Vince Aragona (08:02):

Yeah. Uh,

Jessica Denson (08:03):

Ta- is, when each place that you go into, is there a different top of mind thing like maybe they have some similarities, maybe there's an affordability, maybe there's a, a homework gap or, but is there usually one thing that stands out each place you go or are they all the same?

Vince Aragona (08:19):

Well, they're, they're not all the same. Yeah. You know, every community has a different series of problems. Um, you know, here in Dallas, um, during the pandemic, you know, we, uh, we participated in RFP and we won a pilot to do,

(08:30):

Um, a hybrid, uh, fiber and wireless network and it was really interesting. The, our whole thesis is if we can build and operate networks at a lower cost, we can deliver service at a lower price and if we can use most of the stuff that the city already has- Yeah. ... we can deliver a cost-free service, right? It's just covering the one-time capital costs. So, uh, that was an interesting pilot as well.

Um, we won the, we won the RFP, we built, uh, a total of 82 new poles, solar powered poles. We, uh, used 10 existing fire departments, uh, a few of the rec centers, put an 80 foot pole up on the existing property, tied that right directly into the network that was already in place. We deployed 72 access points in the neighborhoods, um, and we did this in six weeks, start to finish between Thanksgiving and New Year's.

Jessica Denson (09:19):

Oh my

Vince Aragona (09:20):

Gosh, during the office. Yeah, left over Care, Cares Act funds. Yeah. You know, and we cheated. I mean, we, we, we knew that we had been awarded the work, so we started lining up all of our vendors and our contractors. Oh, to our

Jessica Denson (09:29):

Guys, we need you.

Vince Aragona (09:30):

Yeah, yeah. But, uh, yeah, it was a great, uh, great outcome. Um, it became part of the Dallas digital pro- um, pilot. Uh-huh <affirmative>. Uh, we covered, um, 3,200 homes. We had 1600 users on the network in less than 30 days. That's

Jessica Denson (09:42):

Amazing.

Vince Aragona (09:43):

And they're still using that network today. So a lot of what we do are pilot programs where the city knows they have a problem, they don't really know all the solutions that are available to them, so we'll design and develop a solution for them. We'll pilot it and bring it to a point where they can operate it independently and from there, um, it's infinitely scalable and we make that same, you know, uh, type of program available to any city that puts their hand up and, and is looking for some

Jessica Denson (10:08):

Help. I love that you mentioned that you lined up the vendors because at Connect Nation, we're a national nonprofit that deals in this space, but we're always say, we can't do it without partners. We all have to work together. Right. We need every network. We need to do this together.

Vince Aragona (10:20):

Right.

Jessica Denson (10:20):

And is that one of the key points that you work with these municipalities or these public sector that it's, it's not one, one person, one group's gonna fix it? <laugh> That,

Vince Aragona (10:30):

That's right. I mean, it, it really is a team sport when you get right down to it. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, the situation that we, um, we're dealing with in Detroit now, Detroit is probably the poster child of the affordability problem. Yeah, let's bring that

Jessica Denson (10:40):

Up. I know you guys are working there, right?

Vince Aragona (10:42):

Yeah. So a few years ago, we had an opportunity to acquire, um, uh, a fiber optic network from a major US operator that no longer was using it. Uh-huh <affirmative>. And in order to solve the affordability problem, the ideal way to do that is to deliver service into the building over fiber. So we acquired the fiber, we are restoring that fiber, bring it basically back to brand new service levels.

Um, it actually connects to about 178,000 homes in Detroit. Now Detroit throughout the, uh, pandemic and with the affordable connectivity program, uh, I'll spare you my personal thoughts on ACP, but it was a 14.2 billion dollar program that exhausted funds in two and a half years- Yeah. ... it was designed for five and basically subsidies don't work. The punchline is subsidies do not work. They've never intended to work. It's a, it's a, it's a bandaid on a flesh wound, right?

(11:33):

It never solves a problem. It just subsidizes it in perpetuity. So we, uh, we decided, you know, we're going to go ahead and build this network out and, uh, start making it available for low income MDUs. And we'll be speaking about that a little bit later on today on the panel is about how do you really solve the affordability problem and, uh, a lot of it again is about building an operating network at a lower cost and finding ways to generate revenue from the network that don't involve having to charge the subscriber.

And there's a lot of ways to generate revenue from the network and be able to make itself sustainable without having to build low income families that really their, their main goal is, you know, how do I pay the rent? Right. How do I pay for food and, you know, how do we do, uh, how, how do we finance all of their basic life essentials?

(12:19):

You know, broadband is the least of the way, you know, least of their worries, right? We're trying

Jessica Denson (12:22):

To survive.

Vince Aragona (12:23):

Yeah. Yeah. So when we really started to look at it, we said, you know, especially in Detroit, Detroit had, um, 80% eligibility for ACP, 61% of those people actually signed up. So when, uh, that subsidy went away, it really harmed, you know, a lot of these low income families, you know, elderly folks that were relying on it for telehealth and telemedicine. Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of the K through 12 students that couldn't connect to their school, low income families can't even, you know, use the internet to search for jobs.

Right. And the only alternative that a lot of these kids had was to have to walk through or ride their bike through a bad neighborhood to go to a tech center or a library to connect. You know, the reason that we actually got involved in this ourselves was in 2022 there was an article that came out and it was two little, little Hispanic girls that were in their little winter coats during the pandemic sitting on a curb of a Taco Bell, did you see that article?

(13:19):

Yeah. Can you

Jessica Denson (13:19):

Say McDonald's because I told my- <laugh>

Vince Aragona (13:22):

It was a fast food place. Yeah. <laugh> But, but there was, you know, the, the tragedy was they were really trying to connect up to their school and having to spend, you know, countless hours outdoors in the winter- Uh-huh.

(13:32):

And at some point in time I just looked at that and said, "This is a problem that we've got to solve." So we really started focusing in on, you know, the affordability gap and the, the percentage, we estimated it's almost 20% of the people in America couldn't afford internet in their home, even with a broadband subsidy.

There's that 20% that completely fell through the gap. So we've, uh, we've developed a lot of different solutions. We're hoping to share some of those today. Um, and, um, again, just spread the word that you can solve this problem, you know, and a lot of it's just, uh, a 10th grade math problem and a matter of will.

Jessica Denson (14:05):

Yeah. And having, not having access there's even, especially for someone with low income, there's a lot of opportunity to pull themselves out of that or to, to better their lives that they lose out on.

Vince Aragona (14:16):

Yeah. And, and I think that's the tragedy in the whole thing. You know, like I said, the, the, the formula really is it's a matter of will and it's a, it's a 10th made ma- 10th grade math problem. And we're doing this purely out of capitalism.

We're not asking for state funds, we're not asking for federal grants, um, we're not asking the city to subsidize anything, you know, you can't actually solve this problem and still make money, uh, and not, not a huge amount of money, but it's enough to pay the bills. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You still can run it at a, at a self-sustainable level.

Uh, and that's really what we're trying to get the word out that, you know, you, you're probably not gonna see an incumbent operator do this because they like money and you're not gonna see a lot of government agencies want to solve the problem because they like to subsidize problems, right?

(14:59):

They like to use taxpayer and ratepayer funds- mm-hmm. ... to buy themselves votes, right? They, they keep low income families reliant on government aid and we're trying to lift them out of that cycle of reliance on, you know, on government handouts. This is, this is a very, very solvable problem.

Jessica Denson (15:18):

So does your brain just approach things like, okay, it, it seems to me, and I know I've known you for 10, 15

Vince Aragona (15:25):

Minutes-

Jessica Denson (15:25):

<laugh> ... But that you see a problem and you want to solve. That's right. You don't

Vince Aragona (15:29):

Want to

Jessica Denson (15:30):

Just, um, put a bandaid on it, like you said, you want, you like, there, we could do something about this.

Vince Aragona (15:36):

That's right. Yeah. Is that how your brain works kind of? Yeah. I mean, you know, like I said, it, it didn't always. <laugh> You know, I mean, I, I've, I'm a startup guy. I've always liked to work in startups. I've, you know, had a couple successful, uh, exits from a couple startups and it's about solving problems, but this time, I think, you know, with, with the article I was telling you about with the two little girls, um, my, um, my granddaughter just turned six.

(15:57):

Oh. My grandson was five and he's autistic and you can't help a picture of your own kids in that s- situation where they're, you know- Yeah. ... having to go to a fast food restaurant to connect up to their school and something about me at that time just snapped inside me. So we've gotta fix this problem.

The, the solutions are there. The municipality's probably not gonna want to solve it because they like to subsidize it and the public sector or the private sector companies, the big incumbent operators aren't going to solve it either because they'll solve it as long as they get the subsidies. Yeah. Right?

But they're not going to solve it of their own volition. So, um, developing these types of solutions, making them scalable, repeatable, so other, uh, whether they're MDUs, whether they're low income neighborhoods, um, we're also a really big promoter of fiber as a fifth utility, having the municipalities be able to build the fiber optic network.

Jessica Denson (16:46):

Yeah.

Vince Aragona (16:47):

And, and allowing the, the service providers to deliver their content and their services over the top. But at the end of the day, it's about getting people connected. Mm-hmm. You know, getting people connected so they can find better jobs, get better educational experiences, better healthcare and, uh, yeah, and I think we'll feel pretty good if we can, you know, do this at a level of scale that's meaningful and measurable, then, uh, we'll have done, done our job.

Jessica Denson (17:08):

I would be remiss if I didn't and, and you're, and Steven might be mad at me <laugh> if I did bring up the national fiber map that you guys did. Talk about what that is and why you did that.

Vince Aragona (17:18):

Yeah. So same thing <laugh> You know, really big, we're a small company. I mean, we're less than 20 people deep, you know, at this point, but what we really saw was the infrastructure gap in America and because we operate in the space and we, um, we know where all the fiber is that's accessible, you know, most people don't realize that when an incumbent operator builds fiber to the home or they build fiber, even with bead funds, that's fiber for their own exclusive use, their own soul economic gain and because it's an incredibly, uh, competitive space- mm-hmm.

Most of them would rather throw a dead body in the well than anybody of their competitors get a drink. Right. So most of the fiber that's out there is not accessible for these types of things. So there is some fiber, you know, the fiber companies, um, that focus on, um, enterprise and government agencies, there's a lot of fiber capacity that's available if you know how to use it, but being in the space for 40 years, we're pack rats and we've basically kept every fiber map that we've ever gotten our hands on and we've been able to accumulate and so we know where most of it is.

(18:20):

But the interesting thing is it doesn't really exist in US interstates and along federal highways just because of the cost and the degree of difficulty of getting fiber in the ground. The other thing that we just wasn't, we weren't seeing anybody picking up on the fact that the amount of fiber that's necessary to support everything that we want to do and, and our concern is, um, using retail internet connections to connect up to our most critical infrastructure.

So our power plants, our communication centers, you know, basically everything that we rely on on a daily basis is connected to the internet and the internet's connected to 105, 195 different countries, 7.6 billion people, which means that anybody with a laptop and a decent, decent internet connection could theoretically cripple, you know, um, cripple us from anywhere on the planet. Oh,

Jessica Denson (19:09):

Yeah.

Vince Aragona (19:10):

The solution really is we have to bridge the infrastructure gap, you know, we've got about ... So our, our plan was let's, well, let's build the information super highway directly alongside the actual highway. We already have the right of way, right? Yeah. So we've got 47,000 miles of interstates, we've got another 190,000 miles of, uh, federal highway, uh, federally funded state and county roads. So over a period of about three years, um, and a lot of this originated from a point of rage, you know, we're just not seeing anybody trying to solve this problem.

Yeah. You know, but we need to get fiber in the ground in these federal transportation rights away. There's still a huge 4G, 5G gaps along these transportation routes with public safety challenge. Uh-huh. We've got to connect up our most critical infrastructure today, dedicated dark fiber, get it off the internet, you know, so that we can protect ourselves from cyber terrorism, cyber warfare, uh, cyber crime, you know, things that are really debilitating.

(20:04):

So it really just made a lot of sense. It was a common sense approach. Let's start with the interstates, let's build out the first 47,000 miles high capacity, underground conduit.

(20:13):

It's a real estate model, you know, it's condo. Yes. So basically any carrier that wants to put fiber in, any government agency that wants to put fiber in, it's basically, you know, this, this, if it gets done, would allow anyone with a need in a checkbook to be able to build, build out their fiber orders of magnitude faster and order, orders of magnitude, more capital effect, you know, capital efficiently.

Mm-hmm. And this is about letting that happen, right? Getting multiple fiber operators building where they need it, using the existing transportation routes to get from point A to point B, uh, and all those points in between and basically, um, our plan involves setting up, uh, an infrastructure management company that would help, you know, with the, uh, design process, the implementation, long term operating it. Um, so it's a, it's a big idea. Uh, altogether, you know, we've ranged in the bucket- It's a big idea for sure.

(21:02):

Yeah. It is a big idea. Yeah. And so, you know, um, but it's just one of those critical infrastructure projects that has to happen. It has to happen in our lifetime and with AI and quantum computing and quantum AI, um, you know, people call it Q day. It's the day that, you know, um, quantum AI gets so smart that a firewall doesn't protect anybody. Yeah. Right? You can just blow right through that.

I'm not sure if that day will ever come or when it'll come, but this will make sure that, you know, getting everything off of the internet and out to dedicated fiber can virtually eliminate that threat and if you were to take out one power plant, you know, centered around any place in the US in the wintertime, food becomes a problem. Getting food delivered over transportation routes becomes a real problem. So, um, rather than see, you know, several million people freeze to death or starve to death <laugh>- Yeah.

(21:54):

You know, what do you say we'd be proactive here? And let's build the infrastructure that really accelerates the entire industry and can proactively present and prevent, uh, uh, a massive loss of life if that were really going to be the case.

Jessica Denson (22:06):

Yeah. I'm going to include a link to the, the national fiber map that you guys did. Yeah,

Vince Aragona (22:11):

Please do. Yeah. And

Jessica Denson (22:11):

The description of this podcast so our viewers, our audience can also find it. Um, it reminds me, we did some work in Monahans, which is in, uh, West Texas and their big thing was the security of the oil fields.

Vince Aragona (22:22):

Yeah.

Jessica Denson (22:23):

And they needed better connections just for that reason.

Vince Aragona (22:26):

Right, right. So

Jessica Denson (22:27):

I think you're definitely hitting on something big there that's very important. And-

Vince Aragona (22:30):

Well, this, this is also creative to a lot of other projects that are already taking place. So, you know, the Trump administration has this 12 and a half billion dollar airport improvement project. Uh-huh. Right? Upgrading FAA and upgrading, um, avionics at airports, those are layer two and layer three. And so we're saying we really should be building the infrastructure- The first way. ... to connect the airports together, right?

Yeah. <laugh> Yeah, that's how you build a house. You build a foundation, then the walls and then the roof, you don't do it in a different order. Uh-huh. But between that, the cold and dome, all the oil fields, all the energy production, distribution, transmission facilities, these guys all need fiber and it just doesn't exist. It, you know, people think it does, but it doesn't. The, the internet service exists, but the fiber that you need to get off the internet doesn't and, and that's really the catalyst.

(23:14):

And that's

Jessica Denson (23:15):

Very much a gap that you guys see that needs to be filled.

Vince Aragona (23:17):

That's the infrastructure gap, right?

Jessica Denson (23:18):

And, and I would be ... You mentioned AI. So what is kind of your company's approach to that? Are you, are you also, are you hearing that a lot from public sector? Like what do we do about AI or what is your opinion about AI or where are you guys set in that world?

Vince Aragona (23:34):

Well, it's one of those things that's going to happen, right? I mean, and we're not going to stop it. No. <laugh> You know, cities aren't going to stop and it's got its own momentum and I, I worry more that human beings as a whole, we just don't have the, um, uh, the wisdom to manage it well, right? So there's always going to be bad actors. There's always going to be ways for people to weaponize and, and turn something that could be really positive and beneficial, you know, curing cancer and things like this, but they're going to, you know, make it a weapon.

And so, you know, you have to be prepared to deal with that and to navigate around it. So there's massive numbers of companies that are building network equipment to try to protect ourselves, right? Uh, but that's probably not going to do the job, you know, that, that's why this is inevitable.

(24:18):

Uh-huh. You know, and kind of the name Neo Networks, Neo is a little bit tongue in cheek about the inevitability of the matrix. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. So we really focus on just getting out in front of things that we see that are inevitable, that nobody's really doing anything about it- Uh-huh <affirmative> And just kind of taking advantage of the fact that, you know, we're all gray haired old guys and, you know, uh, have ways to get this done. Um, so yeah, so we're, we're hoping to leave a legacy that we can solve some of these really big, very stubborn problems that nobody else seems to want to fix. So

Jessica Denson (24:49):

Speaking of that, are, is there some motivation to bring at the next generation of people that want to do this and

Vince Aragona (24:55):

Work on this? Yeah, abs- absolutely. I mean, you know, I think, you know, most of us will probably tell you that we're probably gonna die at our desk, but the reality is, um, even the large incombent operators, if you think about it, they haven't really been network builders for a long time. They're procurement people.

They outsource getting their networks built. They outsource, getting their networks repaired and, you know, if you really look at, um, um, whether it's, uh, um, the millennials, Gen X, Gen Z, nobody's really teaching these folks how to deal with design, engineering, construction, operations, maintenance, break, you know, all the break fix, order fulfillment. So that skill doesn't really exist. So what we're trying to do is get this far enough along and bring up the next generation, uh, of folks that will take over from us and continue it on into the future.

(25:43):

So we're plowing the road, you know, is kind of the way we look at it and, uh, we need people to run the plows. <laugh> <laugh>

Jessica Denson (25:49):

Yeah, we do. So where do you see neo networks in the next five, 10 years? Is that with this fiber map fulfilled or what, what would be your

Vince Aragona (25:58):

Perfect

Jessica Denson (25:58):

World?

Vince Aragona (25:58):

Well, yeah, in, in a utopian world, if we were to do this the way that we've outlined it for our national, our version of the national broadband master plan, um, again, it's, it's, it's mostly common sense. We design the network, we have the state DOTs build it. They're the permitting agency. So here's your design, we fund it, they get the, the, the, uh, conduit in the ground, the manholes, the hand holes in the ground, we build the infrastructure with that in place we can literally pull fiber through any one of these pipes and get it anywhere in the, in the country in very short order.

Um, I'd like that's nothing more than within the next five years to get this funded. We're, we're calling it out as a public private partnership, partially, publicly funded, partially privately funded, you know, but in this case, the, the, uh, the financials and the, the savings to the taxpayer, the effect on homeland security and national defense, uh, the amount of non-tax revenue, even under a cost recovery based, uh, schema, just conduit leases and manhole rents and simple things.

(26:59):

The, the network operators can actually operate their network at a lower cost than they would do it building it out on their own. The, the taxpayers savings are so profound that within, uh, worst case within 20 years, they, they not only recover all the operating costs, but they actually get their investment back.

But if we open it up for commercial use, that number gets more than cut in half. So within 10 years, we could actually ... Five years we'd have the network built. 10 years it would be generating enough revenue to recover the taxpayer's entire investment and the surplus revenues that get thrown off allow continued land and expand. We can continue to build a network with retained earnings from the network. So there, there, it's gotten to a point where we spend so much time and energy trying to perfect this that we can't find a reason not to do it, you know?

(27:43):

Yeah. It's one of those things where it's just makes so much sense that with the exception of, you know, political barriers and, you know, pushback from incumbents that don't quite understand what it is, what we're trying to, trying to do. But if you think about it, even they benefit, right? If they can get fiber built, you know, for $10 a foot or would normally cost them, you know, 50, $60 a fee, you know, a foot, they'll make more money or they can build fiber cheaper and they can make their services more affordable.

So, uh, again, we think it makes all the sense in the world, but, um, our, our challenge right now is really getting the word out, you know, getting it into, uh, uh, Secretary Ludnick and commerce, getting into Secretary Duffy and transportation. Uh, so we've been corralling as many people within our network as we can.

(28:27):

Ultimately, you know, we'd like to have this in front of the Trump administration and, you know, at least make a, an informed decision. Are they really willing to invest taxpayer funds, not spend it, invest it-

Jessica Denson (28:38):

Yeah. ...

Vince Aragona (28:38):

Right, in something that could have this big of a, of an impact on Homeland Security, national defense and the, the biggest really the factor is with a $39 trillion national debt, you know, we have got to invest in infrastructure that helps those technologies like AI and quantum computing and advanced robotics because unless we make more money as a nation- Yeah. ... we're gonna have trouble servicing the, the, the interest on the debt and this is the way to do it. We invest in infrastructure that brings technology into the marketplace and we- Again,

Jessica Denson (29:10):

You're being solution oriented.

Vince Aragona (29:11):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the only way I roll, you know? <laugh> You know, when, when, when you, when you do a lot of work in startups, you know, it's about, um, it's not, it's not about how much money you make, it's about how much money you keep. Uh-huh <affirmative>. You know, and, and that's just, um, business 101.

Jessica Denson (29:26):

So I, I, I'm backing into this a little bit because we've already, we've talked about neo networks and what you want to do and really the future, but where did you get your start? What got you into this field?

Vince Aragona (29:36):

Um, I, I grew up, uh, as number six of eight kids- Oh, wow. ... in upstate New York. Yeah. And so I, uh, I joined the Air Force at 17. Uh-huh <affirmative>. And I was a, a systems technician at Andrews Presidential Radio and I've been in this space now since 1982, but yeah, I'm kind of a bootstrap guy.

Um, early on in my career I was, uh, negotiating leases from the front of my truck and I was rigging my own tower sites and I was, you know, You know, basically, um, spending countless hours in a bucket truck, splicing fiber optic cables and copper wires. So, uh, I've been fortunate in that I've been able to basically, um, do every job in the industry. So I got, you know, a really good opportunity to understand how- You see how works. I know how it works. Yeah. Yeah.

(30:16):

So, and it's just been one of those things where, uh, you know, enough time and energy and 40 years later, you know, you can finally figure out a way to put it all together and again, make it scalable and repeatable. Uh, you know, I, I don't care if we do this, I don't care if it's a bigger company that comes along, you know, at the end of the day, I'm, I'm seeing this as a way to make sure that my grandkids, my, you know, great grandkids have a path forward that, you know, doesn't require them to, uh, you know, uh, suffer.

Jessica Denson (30:46):

Yeah. I, I, I think that's wonderful that you're moved by that. And my CEO would kill me if I did not say thank you for your service. Oh, thank you. Yeah. She's very supportive of veterans and, um, the military active, uh, military families. So, um, thank you for that.

Vince Aragona (31:01):

Well, thank you for helping get the word out.

Jessica Denson (31:03):

Yeah. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, you're welcome. And I will share, as I said, the link to your company, the link to the national bra- uh, fiber map and, um, w- wish you luck. I'll be watching you guys.

Vince Aragona (31:14):

Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Yeah. Please check in on us from time to time.

Jessica Denson (31:17):

Yeah, I will.

Vince Aragona (31:17):

All right.

Jessica Denson (31:18):

And, and let's revisit in a few months. If you guys got things going on, let's, let's, uh, do a little followup.

Vince Aragona (31:24):

My answer is always yes. Awesome. It's just it comes down to what's the question.

Jessica Denson (31:27):

<laugh> Yeah. <laugh> So Vince with Niamh Networks, thank you so much.

Vince Aragona (31:30):

That's right. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Jessica Denson (31:34):

On future episodes of Connected Nation, we'll bring you more details from Connected America taking place in Dallas, Texas. Until then, I'm Jessica Denson and this is Connected Nation.